The Senedd met in the Chamber and by video-conference at 13:30 with the Llywydd (Elin Jones) in the Chair.

Statement by the Llywydd

Welcome, all, to the Plenary session. Before we begin, I want to set out a few points. This meeting will be held in a hybrid format, with some Members in the Senedd Chamber and others joining by video-conference. All Members participating in proceedings of the Senedd, wherever they may be, will be treated equitably. A Plenary meeting held using video-conference, in accordance with the Standing Orders of the Welsh Parliament, constitutes Senedd proceedings for the purposes of the Government of Wales Act 2006. Some of the provisions of Standing Order 34 will apply for today's Plenary meeting, and these are noted on the agenda. I want to remind all Members that Standing Orders relating to order in Plenary meetings apply to this meeting, and apply equally to Members in the Siambr and those joining virtually.

1. Questions to the First Minister

Questions now to the First Minister, and the first question comes from Jayne Bryant.

Further Education

Jayne Bryant AC: 1. What measures is the Welsh Government taking to support further education during the pandemic in Wales? OQ56895

Mark Drakeford AC: Llywydd, throughout the pandemic, the Welsh Government has supported the sector through close partnership working, joint production of essential guidance, COVID adaptations of qualification regimes, and the provision of over £100 million in additional funding to respond to the impact of coronavirus on staff and students.

Jayne Bryant AC: Thank you for that answer, First Minister. The impact of the pandemic on learners in Wales has been unprecedented. Pupils have faced huge upheavals and many have seen their best laid plans and career paths disrupted through no fault of their own. In a recent study on the further education sector, the International Public Policy Observatory found that vocational and apprenticeship courses have been disproportionately hit by the pandemic. Across the UK, take-up of vocational courses, such as engineering and construction, have declined, and the number of young people starting new apprenticeships fell by 46 per cent in 2020 compared with 2019.
I know that the First Minister agrees that no-one must be left behind in our recovery, and I'm pleased at the Welsh Government's ambition when it comes to apprenticeships. However, we must make sure that we protect the pupils who have been through so much over the last 18 months. What measures can the Welsh Government take to ensure that those whose educational plans have been disrupted are supported and given every opportunity to restart?

Mark Drakeford AC: Llywydd, I thank Jayne Bryant for that further question, and, of course, she is right that the position for students looking to study vocational courses or to take up apprenticeships has been particularly volatile over the last 18 months because many of the opportunities that those young people would have looked for in the workplace have been disrupted by coronavirus closures. We've seen, as a result, a larger proportion of learners opt for studying A-level courses in A-level settings because you don't have the same level of potential disruption to the vocational element. We expect that that phenomena will continue into the start of this year. Because the position is very volatile, and with a very strong recovery in the economy, when more opportunities in the workplace will begin to emerge, the Welsh Government has provided a further £5 million to further education colleges to allow them to recruit additional learners should people change their minds during the autumn term and come back into the vocational and the apprenticeship route.
I strongly endorse, Llywydd, what Jayne Bryant said about the importance of vocational education and the success of the apprenticeship programme in Wales, and both of those will be supported by further measures over the weeks and months ahead.

Mark Isherwood AC: The policy recommendations for the next Welsh Government, published by Colegau Cymru/Colleges Wales in March, included to build on the Curriculum and Assessment (Wales) Bill and the consequential impact on 14 to 19 learning pathways to provide a legal basis for learners aged 14 to 16 to progress to vocational and technical pathways provided independently by further education institutions, and the necessary funding to support these learners. It's now many years since the Welsh Conservatives first called for the creation of two equal education streams, beginning at age 14, academic and vocational, one alongside the other, giving pupils the chance to develop important skills before embarking on their chosen career path. How does your Welsh Government therefore respond to this Colegau Cymru recommendation, and what engagement is it having with the further education sector regarding this?

Mark Drakeford AC: Llywydd, well, the wish to see parity of esteem between vocational and academic qualifications certainly is not the province of the Conservative Party. It was there in 1945, in the Labour Government's reforms to education in that era as well. I strongly support the belief that young people who choose to go into vocational courses, apprenticeship courses, as Jayne Bryant said, that those should be regarded as equally important and equally successful routes for those young people to shape their futures. And as for the Colegau Cymru proposals, well of course the new curriculum does provide, from the age of 14 onwards, equal access to both of those courses, and we will continue to work with the sector. I saw with interest the priorities that Colegau Cymru suggested to the new committee here, for its work programme in this area, looking at advanced technical and higher technical skills in the further education sector, to make sure we prepare young people for the new apprenticeships and the new vocational learning of the future in the industries that will emerge over the years to come.

Emergency Services in Pembrokeshire

Paul Davies AC: 2. Will the First Minister make a statement on emergency services in Pembrokeshire? OQ56863

Mark Drakeford AC: I thank the Member for that question. Llywydd, emergency services in Pembrokeshire continue to work collaboratively to meet the needs of local people during the continuing public health crisis.

Paul Davies AC: First Minister, in 2014, in your capacity as the then health Minister, you closed the special care baby unit at Withybush General Hospital, and you dismissed calls at that time that it could impact the sustainability of other services. And yet, you may have seen reports that paediatric emergency assessments will now be removed from Withybush hospital until at least next year. That means children requiring emergency treatment will have to travel to Glangwili, putting pressure on the local ambulance service, which, on top of that, is facing a potential reduction in capacity, from seven down to five, which I believe is totally unacceptable. Now, this reduction will have a very serious impact on the people of Pembrokeshire and, indeed, on ambulance staff. An given that the military will be supporting the ambulance service, then it doesn't make any sense to reduce this cover. So, First Minister, do you accept that taking away paediatric services from Withybush hospital will have a serious impact on children and young people, as well as on ambulance cover? And will you now intervene to make sure that these paediatric services are available at Withybush hospital and that we don't see a reduction in long-term ambulance services in Pembrokeshire?

Mark Drakeford AC: Well, Llywydd, those supplementary questions are a farrago of speculation dressed up as fact. [Interruption.] I'm well aware of what the health board has published, Mr Davies, and it didn't publish what you have just said. So, I'm well aware of what was published, and I'm happy to correct the record, given what you have just suggested.
Let me go to the start of your question. He is quite right, Llywydd, that, back in 2014, I did indeed accept the recommendation of the royal colleges, accept the recommendation of the expert group that was set up to review services in Withybush, accepted their recommendation that, for the safety of children in that part of Pembrokeshire, specialist services should be concentrated at Glangwili. I'm very glad indeed that I accepted those recommendations, despite his own opposition to them at the time.
What the health board has said, Llywydd, is that the arrangements put in place on 24 March 2020 will not be changed. So, the Member implies to everybody that there is some new change to the services. The health board says, on 24 March 2020, it made adjustments because of coronavirus; those adjustments will not change. He then repeats what he said on the floor of the Chamber last week—an unsubstantiated rumour that the roster review is going to reduce ambulance cover in Pembrokeshire. I've not seen anything to substantiate that. The roster review is a continuous process, it is a national not a local exercise, it's designed to make sure that there are local crews in the right place to respond to the needs of those populations, and that is what the review will continue to do.

Jane Dodds AS: Minister, I wanted to ask a question in relation to access to NHS dentists in the Hywel Dda area. Hywel Dda Community Health Council undertook some mystery shopping exercises earlier this year, and found that some practices told us that they had long waiting lists for NHS care—some up to three years long. Out of the 45 practices they spoke to, less than 50 per cent were accepting new NHS patients, and three practices confirmed straight away that new private patients could be seen straight away.
I've also had residents contacting me about the difficulties in accessing an NHS dentist, including residents who are struggling to access emergency dental care. It's causing significant anxiety, as I'm sure you will be aware, and I just wondered if I could have an update on what specific steps the Government is taking in conjunction with the health board to improve access to NHS dentists in the Hywel Dda health board. Diolch yn fawr iawn.

Mark Drakeford AC: Thank you very much to Jane Dodds for that question, Llywydd.

Mark Drakeford AC: The Welsh Government's work in dentistry continues to be focused on assisting the profession to recover from the impact of coronavirus, which was greater in dentistry than almost any other primary care profession, because of the nature of dentistry: the aerosol generating procedures, the dentists rely on; the level of PPE that dental staff have to wear; the impact on ventilation needs, where the Welsh Government has invested significant amounts of capital to assist dental practices to be able to improve ventilation and, therefore, to be able to see more patients. It remains the fact that longer time still has to be provided between each patient, because dental practices, surgeries, have to be cleaned to a different standard to avoid the risk of dentists being exposed to coronavirus or it being passed on to patients.
As of this week, Llywydd, we are back to 30,000 people being seen every week in person across Wales, and a further 2,000 people receiving advice or consultation virtually from dental practices. It's not enough. There are parts of Wales where people still have to wait too long, but while we are still on the journey out of coronavirus and those safeguards have to be taken, I'm afraid that prioritisation by clinical need remains the way in which dentists are able to offer appointments and access to their services.

Questions Without Notice from the Party Leaders

Questions now from the party leaders. The leader of the Conservatives, Andrew R.T. Davies.

Andrew RT Davies AC: Thank you, Presiding Officer. First Minister, last week, your Government decided to bring in COVID passes. You and I have debated across this Chamber on the merits or not, as the case may be, of COVID passports. Obviously, that's quite a substantial change from what you, as First Minister, told me back in July about what your personal position was. Can you explain to me, therefore, with the COVID pass coming in, what will fall under the category of a nightclub under these restrictions?

Mark Drakeford AC: Yes, I can very easily do that, Llywydd, and I'm very happy to do so. Because the Member will be aware that this problem, which I see is repeated as though it was a problem, was already solved. Back earlier in the summer, pubs were open, nightclubs were closed. So, there was a legal definition available and operating in Wales because different regulations applied to both sectors. Nightclubs were the last part of the night-time economy to be able to reopen, and the regulations distinguished between the two, and did so, from memory—so, apologies if I remember this slightly wrongly—from the start of the summer, when pubs were able to be opened, until August, when nightclubs were able to be opened, and the regulations set out the legal definitions that distinguish between one setting and the other. [Interruption.]

Andrew RT Davies AC: I'm glad you're able to clarify that, because I hear your backbenchers chuntering away there. Your health Minister on Radio Wales couldn't clarify it on Friday afternoon, and she said that information was due to come forward at a later date, as her response, I believe. So, for clarity—and I've had many owners in my own area, covering the city of Cardiff, obviously that has a large night-time economy, that were unsure whether they'd be captured by these rules—the previous definition that existed under the COVID restrictions is the definition that would be used to identify what falls as a nightclub as opposed to a public house under the Licensing Act 2003.
One thing I think is really important that also needs to be brought forward from your Government, First Minister, is your winter preparedness plan for the NHS. On 15 September last year, we were in possession of that as Assembly Members/MSs, and we were able to analyse it and see the robustness of it. When will we see the winter preparedness plan coming from the Welsh Government? Because on the three-week forward look for business in this Parliament, there's no indication of when that plan is coming forward.

Mark Drakeford AC: Well, Llywydd, there is an extant plan, because what we have done is regularly to update the COVID plan that we published during the pandemic. The latest version of the plan is the one that set out the alert levels and then included alert level 0, the alert level we've been at now for the last six weeks. It is our intention to bring forward a further iteration of the plan to reflect the position as we go into the winter, but it will be part of the regular updating of the plan that has been there—it's available for the Member or anybody else to inspect. And, as I say, as part of the approach we have taken throughout regular updatings of the coronavirus control plan, there'll be a further iteration over the couple of weeks ahead.

Andrew RT Davies AC: I'm grateful for that clarity, First Minister. So, I take it that there will not be a specific plan for winter preparedness, as the Government has historically brought before Parliament. As I said, last year, there was one on 15 September brought forward for our perusal and to be able to look and scrutinise the robustness of it. Today, we've seen already a senior consultant in the A&E departments of Hywel Dda indicate the pressures at A&E in that part of Wales. I accept these pressures exist across the United Kingdom, and that's why I think it's important that there is a winter preparedness plan. And also, the indication that the army are going in to support the ambulance service, there does seem to be some disagreement as to whether it's an option or whether it's an actual commitment. I notice the chief executive of the ambulance service talked of it being a commitment that the army were coming in to help the ambulance service. The Welsh Government spokesman last night just talked of it being an option, at the moment, under consideration. Can you confirm that it is the fact that the Welsh ambulance service will be getting assistance from the army, and can you confirm when that assistance might be made available to the ambulance service here in Wales, please?

Mark Drakeford AC: By all means, Llywydd. I'm happy to set out for Members the process by which assistance from the armed forces can be secured. It's called the MACA process—military aid to the civil authorities—and the process works in this way: it relies on a request from, in this case, the local health board, which sets out the nature of the help that it would need—I beg your pardon, in this case, from the Welsh Ambulance Service NHS Trust—that sets out the nature of the help it would need, the jobs that they think armed forces personnel could assist with, the number of people they think they would need. That application comes, first of all, to the Welsh Government. That request has now been received. The Welsh Government has a role either to endorse or to send back that request for further work.
Through the whole of the pandemic, every time we have received a request of that sort from the health service, we have always endorsed it. We then have to send it on, because the decision rests with the Ministry of Defence as to whether or not to approve that application. Over the course of the pandemic, most applications have been approved, but not all. So, it's not a rubber-stamping exercise; the Ministry of Defence look at it and they decide whether or not they are able to help. And that will be the stage we will be at next, making sure that we make the best possible application to the Ministry of Defence, and hoping that they will be able to offer us the help that they have offered us in very large measure during the course of the pandemic.

Leader of Plaid Cymru, Adam Price.

Adam Price AC: Diolch, Llywydd. Last week, the UK Government revealed that pollution levels from nitrogen dioxide in the new Great Western Railway's bi-mode trains were, on average, five times higher, and, at peak levels, 20 times higher than those recorded on Wales's most polluted street, Hafodyrynys Road near Crumlin—deemed so bad, it is this week being demolished. The Rail Standards and Safety Board's study was conducted only on the section of the line from Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads, where the trains mostly use their electric motors, and not along the Welsh section, where, out of necessity, diesel is largely used, and the consequent levels of pollution are likely to be even higher. Will the Welsh Government ask the board urgently to extend its monitoring to Wales—north and south—so we can know what the current position is regarding pollution on the Welsh railway network?

Mark Drakeford AC: Well, it was dismaying, Llywydd, to see the reports of the Rail Safety and Standards Board, and it will be a very good idea indeed if they were to extend the range of their research into Wales. Because, as the leader of Plaid Cymru says, it is crystal clear, from what we have seen, that the point at which those nitrogen dioxide levels rise is the point at which trains switch from electric to diesel. What is the point at which that most often happens? Well, it's when trains enter Wales. Let me give just one set of facts, Llywydd, to demonstrate the appalling failure of the UK Government to attend adequately to Welsh needs in this area: in England, 41 per cent of the track is electrified; in Scotland, 25 per cent of the track is electrified; in Wales, 2 per cent of the track is electrified. That is the record of the Conservative Government—[Interruption.]—in the way that it's treated Wales, with its promises, Llywydd, as we remember at a general election to electrify the main line all the way to Swansea. I wouldn't be making remarks from a sedentary position if I was the leader of the opposition; I'd be keeping quiet, hoping that people don't remind him of his record.

Adam Price AC: The Minister of State in the Welsh Office, David T.C. Davies, again last week defended the cancellation of the electrification of the south Wales main line to Swansea, by arguing that it would not have produced any benefits to passengers. Now, decarbonisation, quite apart from its positive environmental impact, would have had the pretty substantial benefit to passengers of not poisoning them. Though rail infrastructure is not devolved, with the exception of the core Valleys lines, air quality is. So, to what extent can the Welsh Government compel the UK Government to reverse its electrification u-turn and stop treating Wales as the fag end of Britain's railways?

Mark Drakeford AC: Well, I'm afraid the verb 'compel' doesn't describe the position that we are in, but what we are certainly in a position to do is to go on making the case whenever we have the opportunity to do so. And our case for electrification doesn't stop with the south Wales main line either, Llywydd; the north-Wales coast line needs to be electrified as well, so that the services can be run between north Wales, northern England and then on to London. We need rail infrastructure to be devolved, we need a fair funding settlement with it, and then we will be able to prioritise and deliver the decarbonisation of rail services, not just in the core Valley lines, which we are already doing, but on those other parts of the system as well.

Adam Price AC: Westminster's serial neglect of Wales's railway network has left Wales with the UK's oldest and worst maintained track and the slowest and dirtiest trains. The obvious answer is for us to wrest control over own infrastructure, but, while Westminster continues to resist, can we afford to stand still? The Welsh Affairs Committee has recently suggested creating a Wales rail board, comprising the UK and Welsh Governments, and other key players like Transport for Wales and Network Rail, to develop a prioritised set of proposals for rail investment. Professor Mark Barry, originator of the south Wales metro, has suggested a 10-year plan of investment that the board could agree on, with core funding from the Welsh and UK Governments. Does the First Minister see merit, at least as an interim solution, in the idea of a joint board and the Barry plan, which could potentially see a threefold increase in planned investment in the Welsh railways over the coming decade?

Mark Drakeford AC: Well, Llywydd, I hope that the UK Government will respond positively to the recommendation of the Welsh Affairs Select Committee, and if they are willing to come to the table in a form of joint arrangement, then certainly they will find us anxious to find a way of helping to make that happen. We do it in other parts of the Welsh sphere. Youth justice is not devolved to Wales; we have a joint youth justice board, jointly chaired by the Welsh Government and by the board itself, and it has delivered some remarkable changes here in Wales. It's not impossible that we couldn't do the same thing in relation to railways as well, but we need a willing partner. We need a UK Government that is prepared to work with us, rather than believing that the way to deal with the future of the United Kingdom is always to be taking powers away from devolved levels, and always thinking that they know best.

Staycations

Vikki Howells AC: 3. What assessment has the Welsh Government made of the impact of staycations on the economy of Wales during the 2021 tourism season? OQ56850

Mark Drakeford AC: I thank Vikki Howells for the question, Llywydd. Early indications confirm what many Members will have seen for themselves: that this has been a buoyant summer for the tourism sector in Wales, with high numbers of people from within Wales and across the United Kingdom choosing to enjoy all that Wales has to offer.

Vikki Howells AC: Thank you for that answer, First Minister, and, without doubt, Wales has benefited economically from the increase in staycations this year. We have such a wonderful country to showcase, so how can the Welsh Government encourage people to continue holidaying in Wales as the worldwide tourist market opens back up in the future?

Mark Drakeford AC: Well, Llywydd, I feel confident—and I was told this many times myself over the summer by people I met on holiday in Wales—that, having discovered Wales, they will want to be back. In a way, that is the greatest advert, isn't it, that, when people come here, they see everything we have to offer and they realise just what a chance there is to come and have a good vacation in Wales. The aims of the Wales tourism strategy are to spread tourism in Wales so that we open up other parts of Wales, including many parts of the Member's own constituency, to people who come to visit us; that we extend the season so that you can offer sustainable jobs for people who we want to work in tourism and hospitality; and then we find new ways to make sure the people who do come and visit Wales have good ways to spend their money and make a contribution to the local economy. All of those three things, Llywydd, seem to me to be very well captured in the zip wire experience in the Member's own constituency. I was very pleased to be there with her earlier this year—a huge tribute, if I could just say a for a moment, to Tyrone O'Sullivan, who led the Tower colliery initiative and has done so much to be determined that a long-term legacy will be left at that site, creating jobs and prosperity for local people. It brings people into the area, it extends the season, it gives people something exciting to spend their money on, and I think it shows us a very fine example of how we can do exactly what Vikki Howells asked in her supplementary question.

Tom Giffard AS: Can I thank the First Minister for his previous answer? I agree with him. I think Wales does have a lot to offer, and whether it's the wonderful beaches of Gower in my region or a zip wire in Cynon Valley, I think the more people come to Wales the more they experience and enjoy it and want to come back. But it was this time last year the Welsh Government had already started introducing local lockdowns around Wales, and, as a result, tourism businesses and local economies in those areas really suffered, and some businesses are very fearful that they simply couldn't survive another lockdown. So, whilst the need to protect public health and people's lives played a part in that decision last year, thankfully, this year, due to the tremendous success of the UK-wide vaccination scheme, the link between cases and hospitalisations has broken. Therefore, given this success, as well as the imminent start of the booster programme, will the First Minister give these tourism businesses an assurance that local lockdowns won't follow later this year?

Mark Drakeford AC: Well, I'm afraid, Llywydd, that things are just not as simple as the Member implies. He says that vaccination has broken the link between falling ill and hospitalisation, and that simply is not true. It has amended the link, thank goodness, and it has very significantly reduced the risk that people who fall ill will end up in hospital, but it certainly hasn't broken it. You heard the leader of the opposition's questions quite rightly pointing to the pressures that the health service is under today—pressures exacerbated by the fact that we have over 500 people per 100,000 people in Wales now ill with coronavirus, 2,500 new cases yesterday, a rising number of people in beds with coronavirus, real pressures in our acute intensive care area, and all of this being carried by staff who are exhausted by the experience of caring for us all during the last 18 months.
I don't want to see lockdowns return here in Wales. I hope the blunt instrument of a lockdown will absolutely not be necessary, but, in the end, if there were to be a new variant of the virus, if the health service were to be so dedicated to dealing with coronavirus because of numbers continuing to increase, this Welsh Government will not turn our back on any measures that, in the end, are necessary to protect the health of people, and, by doing so, to protect the economy as well.

The Funding of Local Authorities

Carolyn Thomas AS: May I declare that I'm still a Flintshire county councillor? Thank you.

Carolyn Thomas AS: 4. What are the Welsh Government's priorities for the funding of local authorities in Wales? OQ56878

Mark Drakeford AC: I thank Carolyn Thomas for that, Llywydd. Together with our partners in the Welsh Local Government Association, our priority remains to assist councils in funding the great public services they provide, in fields such as education, social services, planning, housing and the environment.

Carolyn Thomas AS: Diolch. I thank the First Minister for the really positive relationship that has been built between Welsh Government and councils, especially during the pandemic. The relationship has ensured that local services have continued to be provided to communities throughout Wales with financial support from Welsh Government. But, as a Flintshire councillor, I have seen the impact of 10 years of austerity on local government. Despite this, of course, local authorities must continue to deliver services under increasing pressures, such as social health care, pay and the rising cost of fuel, and there are no more savings to be had. How can you ensure that the local government settlement reflects the continued pressure on local authorities? Diolch.

Mark Drakeford AC: Well, Llywydd, I thank Carolyn Thomas for that. Having mentioned the heroic efforts of staff in our health service during the pandemic, I want to say as well that all those people who work for our local authorities—the teachers and support staff in our schools, the social workers and the care workers who look after people in their own homes, the people who have continued to collect the rubbish on our streets every single day during coronavirus—they, too, have been absolutely on the front line. And in our discussions with local government, we always try to recognise the pressures that austerity has brought and the return on the investment that we can make.
Now, the Member will be aware that, over the last two years, we've been able to provide settlements for local government—a 4.3 per cent increase in 2019-20, a 3.8 per cent overall settlement in 2020-21—that have gone a small way to recognising the years that went before them, those long years of austerity. The Minister will meet the finance sub-group, the joint group we have with the WLGA, the Welsh Government and independent experts, to consider all the different pressures that local government face and to see how we can respond to those in the budget round. That meeting will take place on 18 October, Llywydd, and I've no doubt, having attended those meetings myself, that the needs of local authorities across Wales will be robustly put forward by Welsh local government representatives.

James Evans MS: I'd like to declare an interest as a member of Powys County Council.
First Minister, in my constituency, in Ystradgynlais, they are currently raising funds to try and secure the playing fields after the lease on the Welfare Ground playing fields expired. They need to find £100,000 to secure the lease. The community need to have access to recreational space to improve people's mental health and overall well-being, which is a key part of the Well-being of Future Generations (Wales) Act 2015. Due to the underfunding of rural local authorities, councils like mine in Powys do not have any spare revenue or capital funding available to support fantastic projects like this one in Ystradgynlais. First Minister, following the Welsh Government's increase in budget from the UK Government, will you look to provide ring-fenced moneys to support local authorities to make sure fantastic community assets are protected for future generations to keep our communities together? Diolch, Llywydd.

Mark Drakeford AC: Llywydd, that has never been the approach of the Welsh Government because it's never been the approach that local authorities have suggested to us. I imagine that his colleagues on Powys County Council would be outraged if the Welsh Government decided how they should spend the money that they have at their disposal. You can imagine, if we started ring-fencing from here the spending decisions of his local authority—and they would be right, because that is not the way that the system should work. The problem that Powys residents face is the impact of 10 years of austerity from his party, which year after year after year reduced the money available for local authorities. Here in Wales, local authorities have been sheltered from that storm by the decisions made here in this Senedd. Had they been exposed as their English counterparts have been to the decisions of Conservative local government Ministers, they wouldn't be raising money to defend play areas, they'd be selling them off in the way that his party has done elsewhere.

Peredur Owen Griffiths AS: I must also declare an interest: I'm a community councillor in Penyrheol, Trecenydd and Energlyn.
I want to highlight the reduced day-care provision for disabled adults in Caerphilly County Borough. For some, hours have been reduced from 30 hours a week to just six, an 80 per cent reduction in support that has been devastatingly detrimental for disabled adults and their families. The Plaid Cymru group on the council have now called for a moratorium on these changes. A few days ago, I spoke to a father who is having to consider putting his son into residential care as he and his wife can no longer cope. Not only would this be harrowing for all concerned, but it would end up costing the local authority significantly more than if they kept the full-time day-care provision growing.
First Minister, is there guidance that your Government can issue to local authorities in order to ensure that disabled adults and their families get the support and respite they deserve, that they need, and that is right for them? Is anyone in Government monitoring whether local authorities are fulfilling their statutory obligation concerning disabled people and whether adequate funding is in place for them to do so? Diolch.

Mark Drakeford AC: Llywydd, I've followed the recent debate about day-care services in Caerphilly and I'm quite sure that those responsible for making those difficult decisions will have been listening carefully to what the Member has said today and to the views of their local communities. The Welsh Government does indeed provide guidance on all of these matters and monitors local authority spending through a complex variety of routes, including in the social services field. In the end, these are local decisions made by those people who are closest to the communities that they serve, taking into account, as I'm sure Caerphilly council does, the views of its own local residents.

Community Safety in Ogmore

Huw Irranca-Davies AC: 5. What are the Welsh Government’s plans to improve community safety in Ogmore? OQ56855

Mark Drakeford AC: I thank the Member for that, Llywydd. We work closely with the police and other agencies responsible for community safety in Ogmore. Later this week my colleague the Minister for Social Justice, Jane Hutt, will chair the policing partnership board for Wales, where community safety matters are always on the agenda.

Huw Irranca-Davies AC: I thank the First Minister for that answer, and one of the things that gave me greatest pleasure over a decade ago was being part of the committee in Westminster that brought into being the police community support officers. It was a long, arduous committee, but we brought them in, and we brought them in because we knew the role that they would have in tackling low-level nuisance and antisocial behaviour, in releasing police resources to focus on other priorities, and to engage with the community, youth groups and other groups in the community as well. So, it also gives me great pleasure, I have to say, to come down here to the Senedd and find successive Welsh Labour Governments investing in police community support officers.
Could you give us the assurance, the guarantee, that both in this Senedd—as a manifesto commitment, making good on it—but also going forward, that Welsh Labour will continue to invest in PCSOs as part of that extended reach of the policing family, and making sure that our communities are as safe as can possibly be, and that we extend deep into these communities to engage with them on community safety?

Mark Drakeford AC: Llywydd, I was very pleased indeed in August to be able to go to Neath with the local police and crime commissioner and with Jane Hutt to announce that we had already found the money to fulfil that manifesto commitment. So, an extra 100 PCSOs are being recruited now. They will cost £3.7 million annually. That will take the total investment by the Welsh Government to £22 million each year and that will secure the services of 600 PCSOs across Wales. I entirely agree with what Huw Irranca-Davies has said, Llywydd: I've had the good fortune to talk to a whole series of police and community support officers, and they really are problem-solving people, out there on the front line. Whether that's engaging with young people, whether it's dealing with traffic outside schools, whether it is responding to mental health needs as people see them on the streets, they are there working with those local communities to solve the problems. That is why this Government has chosen to invest in them. It was a proposal very warmly welcomed earlier this year, and I look forward to seeing that investment continue.

Altaf Hussain AS: I want to declare an interest as I am an elected councillor of Bridgend County Borough Council. First Minister, in July it was reported that the police were planning to use powers to crack down on anti-social behaviour at Ogmore-by-Sea using a dispersal order. Will the First Minister outline how successful this measure has been, and if it has worked, whether he believes that other hotspots could benefit? Thank you very much.

Mark Drakeford AC: Llywydd, I think it is more for the police and their partners on the ground to be able to report on the success of their initiatives in any locality, rather than for me. What I do know is that, ever since May of this year, a weekly meeting has taken place, led by local police services but involving all blue-light partners. In the Ogmore setting, the Royal National Lifeboat Institution, the British Transport Police and others review all the evidence of activity over the previous weekend, they look forward to events that are happening over the week ahead, and they try and align their resources to respond to those local community needs. That is why that neighbourhood policing, in which PCSOs play such a part, is able to respond to issues when there is a need to mobilise resources in the way that Altaf Hussain referred to in the Ogmore context.

The Living Wage

Llyr Gruffydd AC: 6. Will the First Minister provide an update on progress made in relation to introducing the living wage in the public sector in Wales? OQ56894

Mark Drakeford AC: Llywydd, the number of public sector employers paying the living wage continues to increase year by year. Recognition of Cardiff as the first living wage city in the United Kingdom is rooted in the fact that both the local authority and the local health board are accredited living wage employers.

Llyr Gruffydd AC: Thank you, First Minister. This has, of course, demonstrated the economic benefits that come to local areas when the public sector and local authorities in particular, perhaps, are accredited as living wage employers, because they are key anchor organisations in those communities. In a statement in 2019, you said that you would write to all public bodies in Wales asking them to achieve living wage accreditation. Can you tell us, therefore, whether all local authorities in particular have responded positively to that request and are moving in that direction proactively? If not, then what are you as a Government doing to encourage them to take action on that? And finally, by when do you as a Government foresee that every local authority in Wales will have become an accredited living wage employer?

Mark Drakeford AC: Llywydd, thank you very much to Llyr Huws Gruffydd for the question. The information that I have shows that 14 of the local authorities in Wales pay the living wage. The number has increased over the years, and I look to all public bodies in Wales to plan to pay a living wage. I acknowledge the fact that not all local authorities are in the same position. Not all local authorities under the leadership of Plaid Cymru are as yet paying the living wage. That reflects the fact that local authorities are not all starting from the same point. The point that I always make to them is that I am willing to acknowledge that, but I'm not willing to accept it when they say they don't have a plan and that they haven't started the journey.
I try each year to attend the annual event that celebrates the living wage. That will take place on 15 November, and at that event we receive the official report of what has happened over the year to date, and how organisations throughout Wales are preparing and planning for what they can do in the ensuing year.

COVID-19 Cases in the Caerphilly Constituency

Hefin David AC: 7. What plans does the Welsh Government have to tackle the increase in COVID-19 cases in the Caerphilly constituency? OQ56893

Mark Drakeford AC: Llywydd, vaccines remain our strongest defence against coronavirus. The autumn booster programme has already started in Caerphilly. Letters inviting 12 to 15-year-olds to be vaccinated will start arriving this week. In addition to vaccination, we must all redouble our efforts to do those simple things that continue to keep us all safe.

Hefin David AC: One thing that impacts the Caerphilly constituency is the UK Government's plans for international travel. We've heard that they are now going to be abandoning the amber aspect of the list and consolidating the green list. I think that's from 4 October. But the UK Government have also indicated that they will no longer require a PCR test on return for travellers returning to England later in October, and I think they've indicated that for the end of the half-term breaks. So, can I ask the First Minister—? I've got concerns about that and the impact on the data that the Government is able to gather. But can I ask the First Minister when the Welsh Government will make a decision for people in Wales? Because I've had a lot of constituents getting in touch to ask that question. And if possible, can he give an indication of his thinking on that today?

Mark Drakeford AC: I thank Hefin David for that, Llywydd. The UK Government's approach to international travel during the pandemic has been amongst the most chaotic parts of its response. It's very hard indeed to follow their thinking in this area. We have, as a Welsh Government, with others, consistently urged on them a more precautionary approach to defending the borders of the United Kingdom against the reimportation into the UK of coronavirus and, particularly, the importation of new variants that may be occurring elsewhere in the world.
At the end of last week, the UK Government decided to collapse the green and amber lists into one. I don't think we had a particular objection to that. They reduced the red list of countries, which I think is more concerning. Again, we would have taken a more precautionary approach to sustaining the number of countries on the red list. But the most concerning thing of all was their decision to move away from PCR tests on day two after someone returns from overseas, because that was the strongest defence against the reimportation of viruses from elsewhere in the world.
In Wales, we genomic sequence a higher proportion of tests than any other part of the United Kingdom, and it is that sequencing that allows the very skilled scientists who do it to identify new variations in coronavirus. Without a PCR test, it is very difficult to see how the UK Government will be able to do that. So, we do have a decision of our own to make. It is a very difficult decision in a practical sense because so many Welsh travellers return to Wales via an English port or airport, and having a separate Welsh system advertised to them, communicated to them at that point is not something that English ports have been keen to do. Nevertheless, we continue to think it through, to discuss it with those on whom we would have to rely, and we will come to a decision shortly on it.
The real answer should have been to have retained day two PCR tests across the United Kingdom, and the failure to do so I think really is a step away from the duty that the UK Government owes to the health of people in this country.

Mental Health First Aid Training

Laura Anne Jones AC: 8. What assessment has the Welsh Government made of the importance of mental health first aid training in and across all educational settings? OQ56871

Mark Drakeford AC: There are many interventions available to schools to meet the well-being needs of learners. We encourage schools to draw on those interventions that best meet the needs of their own staff and students. Public Health Wales published an extensive review of mental health first aid programmes in 2016.

Laura Anne Jones AC: Thank you, First Minister. The importance of mental health, of course, has raised its profile significantly during this pandemic. Due to its importance, I'm thrilled to have recently been made an ambassador for the Where's Your Head At? UK campaign, which has been very successful. This campaign has culminated in a Bill currently going through the UK Parliament to ensure that, within first aid training, mental health first aid training is incorporated, recognising both mental and physical first aid as equally important. I hope that we can emulate this in Wales, First Minister, and, even, better it, by ensuring that mental health first aid training forms an integral part of all first aid training within businesses, but also within our communities. I'm delighted that life-saving first aid will form a part of the new curriculum in schools, but do you agree with me that we should ensure that mental health first aid training forms an integral part of these life-saving skills that are going to go through our educational settings, and also that mental health ambassadors should be in all schools, with comprehensive mental health first aid training? And perhaps it should be incorporated in teacher training itself, so that our children and young people have someone to turn to who can signpost them correctly or even ask those simple, life-saving words, 'Are you okay?'

Mark Drakeford AC: I thank Laura Anne Jones for that and congratulate her, of course, on her appointment as an ambassador in this very important field. She'll be well aware, I know, of the whole-system approach that we've been developing in schools in Wales, and the contribution that the reformed curriculum will make to safeguarding young people's mental health. I know that my Cabinet colleague Lynne Neagle, who has such a passionate interest in all of this, will welcome the Member's interest in the area and would, I'm quite sure, be very pleased to meet her to talk about some of the issues that have been raised today, and to make sure that we make available to schools and young people the fullest range of resources they can draw on to make sure that health and well-being—physical and emotional well-being—are safeguarded as children, we hope, grow out of the very difficult experiences that they have had to live through over the last 18 months.

I thank the First Minister.

2. Business Statement and Announcement

The next item, therefore, is the business statement and announcement. I call on the Trefnydd to make that statement. Lesley Griffiths.

Lesley Griffiths AC: Diolch, Llywydd. I have no changes to announce to this week's business. Draft business for the next three sitting weeks is set out on the business statement and announcement, which can be found amongst the meeting papers available to Members electronically.

Darren Millar AC: Trefnydd, the events that we saw unfold in Afghanistan over the summer left everybody shocked and appalled, frankly, with the scenes that unfolded. One of the groups of people in Wales who were particularly affected by those scenes were veterans in this country, many of whom have served in the military in Afghanistan. Can I call for a statement on support for those veterans? I appreciate that there has been some discussion on this in the Senedd recently, but I do think we need a further statement on this, because one of the things that has been raised with me by veterans is the need for a 24/7 crisis line for those who find themselves in difficulty when the current Veterans' NHS Wales service, which is just available during normal working hours, isn't there. I do think that this is something that needs to be considered. It would be great if the service in Wales could be extended so that there is a telephone service available for those veterans in need that plugs them straight into our Veterans' NHS Walesservice, which I and others are very proud of.

Lesley Griffiths AC: Thank you. I think you raise a very important point; the gratitude that we have for our veterans should never be forgotten. You'll be aware of the significant support that the Welsh Government does provide for our veterans. The specific question you were asking regarding a 24/7 support line I know is something the Deputy Minister, who is in the Chamber and heard your question, is considering.

Delyth Jewell AC: I'd like a statement explaining the Welsh Government's decision to continue to attend the Defence and Security Equipment International arms fair. The First Minister said in 2019 that he would review the Government's presence at this event, after Leanne Wood called its participation 'abhorrent', but the BBC reported this week that the Welsh Government was attending this year's event. Trefnydd, there is a rather worrying lack of transparency here. People in Wales who object to their tax money being spent on promoting weapons that kill civilians have a right to an explanation from the Government about why it decided to continue to sponsor the arms trade. Did the First Minister follow through with his promise to review his Government's attendance at this event? If not, why not? But if he did, will the Welsh Government publish the findings of this review so that the Senedd and the public can understand the basis on which they decided that sponsoring an arms fair was an appropriate use of public funds? And finally, Trefnydd, will they provide an explanation as to how attending an arms fair, where deals will be done that will result in civilian deaths in places like Yemen, is consistent with their stated aim of establishing our reputation as a nation of sanctuary committed to human rights and promoting peace?

Lesley Griffiths AC: The Member is incorrect. There was no Welsh Government sponsorship of the trade fair that you referred to.FootnoteLink

Information further to Plenary

Jenny Rathbone AC: I just wanted to raise the very serious issue that occurred in Bute park about 10 days ago, where there was a premeditated attack on over 50 trees and other infrastructure in the park. This is one of our most iconic parks across Europe, and I'm very disturbed that somebody could've done such a thing, given that it was obviously well organised in advance. It appears to be an attention-seeking effort by somebody who wants to destroy society in the context of the climate emergency and the need to plant a million trees. So, I just wondered what conversations, if any, the Welsh Government have had on this very serious issue, as, to date, nobody has yet been apprehended. I am extremely concerned about what might happen next.

Lesley Griffiths AC: Thank you. It certainly appeared to be a very senseless act of vandalism and I think it's really shocked and saddened many of the local communities in the area. As you say, in response to the climate emergency, we need to be planting more trees. The Welsh Government is working with Cardiff Council and South Wales Police partners; they've added their voice to urge anyone who has any information about this to come forward or to contact Crimestoppers.

Laura Anne Jones AC: Business Minister, following on from a question to the First Minister last week, please can I call for a statement from the relevant Minister—an updated statement—on the advice for sending children and young people to school or other educational settings when a member of their household has tested positive for COVID? Obviously, this is causing significant distress for many headteachers, parents and young people, as children and young people are still being advised to go to school after a member of their household has tested positive. This is, of course, worrying and increasing because the number of people testing positive for COVID is increasing.
Obviously, our priority needs to be to keep our children in school as much as possible this year, but it has been suggested that perhaps children and young people stay off school and college until their PCR tests come back as negative. From my own personal experience recently, I'm aware that the results are coming back now within 24 hours, roughly. The worry is, of course, that more children and young people will end up going off in the long run if we don't manage this correctly. Therefore, to reassure anxious headteachers, parents and young people alike, can we have the current guidance and can you reassure us that it is in the best interests of our children and young people? Can we have a statement on that, please? Thank you.

Lesley Griffiths AC: I'm sure that you're aware that the Minister for education works very closely with our schools and our headteachers. The Welsh Government, when we bring forward any policy or guidance, follow the latest public health advice. If that should change, the Minister for education will obviously update Members.

Heledd Fychan AS: Trefnydd, with winter fast approaching, many people have contacted me expressing concern at the amount of shoal in rivers next to communities that were devastated by flooding in February 2020, including Clydach Terrace in Ynysybwl and Oxford Street in Nantgarw. Though some work has been undertaken in some areas, due to the impact of the floods on the riverbanks, the amount of shoal remains extensive. Natural Resources Wales have stated to residents that they don't have the funding to do more work in these areas. Can I therefore request a statement from the Minister for Climate Change specifically regarding the dredging and deshoaling of rivers next to at-risk communities, and on progress made on implementing the national strategy for flood and coastal erosion risk management in Walessince its publication in October 2020?

Lesley Griffiths AC: Thank you. Well, unfortunately, the area to which you refer suffered severe flooding in February 2020, just ahead of the COVID-19 pandemic, and I'm aware of a great deal of work that has been carried out by NRW and the local authority. I will certainly ask the Minister to write to you to update you in relation to the specific question you asked.

Jack Sargeant AC: Trefnydd, on Friday, I will be attending the 125th birthday celebration of Tata Steel in my own constituency. My community is built on steel, as you well know, and I'm incredibly proud of that. Now, the future of steel production is low carbon, locally produced steel, and Shotton Steel should be right at the forefront of that process. Can we have a statement, a Welsh Government statement, Trefnydd, on the importance of the steel industry to all parts of Wales, including Shotton Steel, and perhaps wishing them a very happy birthday and a successful future?

Lesley Griffiths AC: Well, I'm certainly very happy to wish them penblwydd hapus. As you know, this Government is absolutely committed to a very strong and sustainable steel sector, and you'll probably be aware that the Minister for Economy, in his very first engagement in the portfolio, attended a meeting with the Steel Council, and I know he has visited Shotton recently with you.
The Minister for Economy did make a statement in July on the importance of a decarbonised industry and our support for the future of steel, to which you refer, and I know he'll be going to Tata Port Talbot later this week.

Altaf Hussain AS: The riots in Mayhill in Swansea in May were shocking. I know how hard the police have worked to identify and arrest those responsible. Can I ask for a statement setting out what has been learned from those events, and whether any further community support might be needed?

Lesley Griffiths AC: Thank you. You are quite right, they were certainly shocking scenes, and I know the Minister for Social Justice has worked very closely with the police to ensure that lessons are learnt, and particularly worked in relation to community cohesion. If the Minister has anything further to update us on following the previous one, I will certainly ask her to do so.

Cefin Campbell MS: Trefnydd, will the finance Minister make a statement updating Members on what steps the Welsh Government is taking to get to grips with the concerns of those businesses that failed to access financial support, adequate support indeed, during the pandemic, and that are now facing difficulties, particularly those that have fallen between the cracks? One of those businesses is a shop owner in Carmarthen, who took the opportunity to do some work on their business and to undertake repairs when her tenant moved out. As soon as they were ready to rent out the property again, the first lockdown started and they couldn't find someone to rent the shop. They now face a business rates bill of thousands. Now, of course, businesses have received business rates relief over that period, but because the property was empty, the individual concerned failed to receive the same support.
So, has the Government undertaken an assessment of how many businesses are in similar positions, andwould the Minister consider providing financial support in these particular cases? Thank you.

Lesley Griffiths AC: Diolch. As you will be aware, the Welsh Government gave the most generous support package to our businesses during the COVID-19 pandemic. We had the unique economic resilience fund. Obviously, I can't comment on an individual case, and I would advise you, if you do feel—. Whilst, obviously, we couldn't help every business, we were very keen that businesses didn't fall through the various gaps of the various funds, and I would encourage you to write to the Minister directly around your specific case.

Jane Dodds AS: Trefnydd, I find myself, unusually, sharing common ground with the Conservatives—[Members of the Senedd: 'Oh']—when I was disappointed to hear that the Government would continue to press ahead with NHS COVID passes in Wales, or COVID passports. Minister, the Scottish Parliament were afforded the opportunity to debate the merits of this decision before they introduced similar measures. Will time be given to the Senedd to discuss and debate this issue? Diolch yn fawr iawn.

Lesley Griffiths AC: Diolch. So, we are finalising the timetable for the introduction of regulations to make the COVID pass compulsory for use in certain settings in Wales from 11 October. So, there will certainly be an opportunity.

Alun Davies AC: Minister, can we make time for Government to bring forward a debate on civil contingencies and emergency preparedness? Over the last few months, the catastrophe of Brexit has hit home to many people. The farming community have been telling us about the betrayal that they feel. The fishing industry have told us about the betrayal that they feel. We've seen thousands and thousands of lorries unable to cross the Channel. We've seen boats avoiding stopping in British ports. We've seen companies and businesses relocating wherever possible, and losing business as a direct consequence of Brexit. And in the last few weeks, we've seen empty food shelves in our supermarkets.
There is a real danger, particularly with the issues at the moment around gas prices, the removal of Britain from the European gas networks, which means that we're going to see fuel poverty and food poverty in this country for the first time, at such a scale, for decades. And this is both the result of Brexit and the incompetence of the UK Conservative Government. Can we have a debate in this place about how our Government can ensure the safety and well-being of people in this country, because it's clear that the Government in London really doesn't care about what happens to the people in this country?

Lesley Griffiths AC: Yes, I absolutely agree with the Member around the saga that we've certainly seen unfold. I think what we've seen from the UK Government is a complete lack of long-term planning; they're very good on short-term slogans, but they are not good on long-term planning, and that's what we need to see. You'll be aware of the carbon dioxide issue at the moment, with our abattoirs concerned that they cannot process—[Interruption.] Well, they've put too much emphasis on markets, haven't they? And we're now seeing it with carbon dioxide, we're seeing a cost-of-living crisis, we are seeing energy prices going up, we are seeing food prices going up, we are seeing our national insurance contributions going up, and we are seeing a cut—[Interruption.] You may find it not serious, Andrew R.T. Davies, but people are having cuts of £20 from their universal credit. We have got a cost-of-living crisis, and it's about time the UK Government started planning for the future. So, I absolutely agree with the Member that it is really important that people see Welsh Government standing up for them, and I'll be very happy to put a statement in.

Peter Fox AS: Trefnydd, a couple of weeks ago, I met with the principal of Coleg Gwent, and he shared with me a quite harrowing tale—well, not a tale, a fact—that one of his equestrian students had had a bad accident, and had suspected spinal injuries, and, as a result, the emergency services said that she should not be moved until they get there. Having rung every 20 minutes, for a significant time, it was nine hours before that young lady was shipped and moved to hospital as an emergency. But the implications of that I feel need to be discussed, because, as a result of that, the principal feels that he has to now pull away from providing courses in Coleg Gwent—those courses that could carry risks, like sport or equestrian advice. And I know that headteachers in schools are feeling the same about things like the Duke of Edinburgh Award. And I was wondering could I ask for an urgent statement from the education Minister on how he believes that principals of colleges, and indeed headteachers, can be expected to manage this difficult situation going forward, as many are very anxious that they cannot continue with these courses, due to being able to comply with their own risk assessments, and due to that unreasonable emergency response time. It's a really serious concern, which could affect many thousands of young people, right across Wales, as a direct result of some of the issues resulting from the pressures within the health service.

Lesley Griffiths AC: Whilst of course I am extremely sorry to hear that somebody had to wait nine hours—I assume it was for an ambulance; I assume that's what you were saying—but you will accept that our ambulance service, and I think we should pay a huge tribute to our ambulance staff, they are dealing with unprecedented pressures. You have to rememberthat every time they respond to a call they have to do it in a COVID-secure way. Even putting PPE on takes time, and that has to be added obviously to the response time. Ahead of the COVID-19 pandemic, they were hitting their targets all the time.
I don't think it would be a good use of Government time for a statement. If there is a concern, I'm sure the Minister for education is aware of it. I think what is really important is that people remember only to phone for an ambulance when there is an absolute need, and I'm not saying that wasn't the case that you referred to, but I think it is an opportunity for us to remember the very difficult situation that our ambulance service and our NHS are in at the current time.

I thank the Trefnydd.

3. Statement by the Minister for Rural Affairs, North Wales, and Trefnydd: Future Farming Policy and the Sustainable Farming Scheme

And to give her some time to change files, I'll slow down in announcing that the next statement is by the Minister for Rural Affairs, North Wales, and Trefnydd on future farming policy and the sustainable farming scheme. So, that statement, Minister, Lesley Griffiths.

Lesley Griffiths AC: Diolch, Llywydd. As set out in our programme for government, tackling the climate and nature emergencies are a priority for this Government. We will create a new system of farm support to maximise the protective power of nature through farming and the agriculture Bill is key to meeting these ambitions. Future farm support will reward active farmers who take action to meet the challenges of responding to the climate emergency and reversing the decline of biodiversity, supporting them to produce food sustainably.
The Agriculture (Wales) White Paper set out our proposals to support farmers to adopt a sustainable approach. This will ensure a long-term future for farming which recognises its importance to Welsh society. The White Paper consultation closed in March, and, today, I am pleased to publish an independent analysis of the responses and the Welsh Government’s response. I am grateful to all those who took time to respond.
The Counsel General set out our ambitious legislative programme on 6 July. This confirmed we will introduce a new agriculture Bill in the first year of the Senedd term. This will be an ambitious piece of legislation reforming decades of EU farm support and represents a significant change to the sector. I have decided to focus the Bill on the key areas needed to support farmers in the coming years, and, crucially, to establish a new system of farm support based on the principles of sustainable land management. The Bill will also replace the time-limited powers in the UK Agriculture Act 2020. This is the first stage of agricultural reform, which will ensure Welsh farms are sustainable.
It remains our intention to reduce the regulatory burden on farmers. We want to make it easier for farmers to understand what they must do to comply with the law through the introduction of national minimum standards. We also believe enforcement should be proportionate to the severity of the offence, and avoid the criminalisation of farmers for less serious offences. However, we recognise these proposals are complex and must be thought through carefully.In the next stage of reform we will work closely with stakeholders to ensure that national minimum standards are implemented in time for the introduction of the proposed scheme.
To provide clarity to Welsh farmers, I am also publishing a delivery plan which outlines the key milestones in this process of reform to be delivered in this Senedd term. When I bring forward legislation next year, I will publish an outline of the proposed sustainable farming scheme. This will not be the final scheme, but it will include detail on the structure and the specific actions which we are proposing farmers will be asked to undertake. The actions in the scheme will have undergone a range of analysis to estimate the economic cost to the farm business of undertaking them and the resulting environmental benefits. This will allow us to have detailed conversations with farmers on the proposals and test our thinking.
I have always been clear we will continue to work closely with our farmers to ensure their voices are heard as future support is designed. I am pleased today to both publish a report on the first phase of co-design and commit to building on this work in a second phase next year. This will form part of an ongoing process of engagement with farmers and stakeholders, which will lead us to a final consultation on the sustainable farming scheme and our transition to the new scheme in spring 2023. Throughout 2024, we will engage with farmers through an outreach programme, and this will ensure we are ready to open the scheme in January 2025.
The farming sector has faced many challenges over the past few years and we are firm in our intention to support farmers to adapt to future changes. Next year, I will launch a range of interventions that will help both prepare the ground for the new scheme and pilot the process that will be used to deliver it.
Significant and important change is coming that will provide a stable and sustainable future for the industry and our rural communities in Wales. In the meantime, subject to sufficient funding being provided by the UK Government, it is our intention to continue with the basic payment scheme until 2023 to provide support for farmers as we work together to transition to the sustainable farming scheme. Alongside this, I will extend the Glastir advanced, commons and organics contracts by two years, to December 2023. Alongside supporting our farmers, this extension will help us further enhance our understanding of the impact of Glastir actions and interventions, and contribute to the development of the future sustainable farming scheme. This is a budget commitment of £66 million over two years for Welsh farmers. I am also announcing a further commitment of £7 million to extend the Farming Connect programme through to March 2023.
I call on the whole Senedd to support our ambitious proposals and to agree that the UK Government should provide full replacement funding for our farmers having now left the European Union. The challenges presented by the climate and nature emergencies need a continuation of the joint effort from farmers and Government. The forward plan and funding announcements I’ve made today demonstrate my and this Government's commitment to this work. Diolch.

Samuel Kurtz MS: I would like to begin by thanking the Minister for advance sight of today’s statement, and it’s quite timely as well, Llywydd, as I asked the Minister for clarity over the future of Glastir funding last Wednesday, and while no commitment was offered then, I and the farming community warmly welcome today’s announcement. Some, however, will be left scratching their heads as to why, after being told to expect an update in July, they’ve had to wait nervously for the last couple of months for today’s update. But, again, I join the farming unions in welcoming today’s commitment.
Firstly, can I seek clarification on the points regarding the national minimum standards? The Minister mentioned her intention to ensure that these are implemented ahead of the proposed new scheme. These new standards must be introduced in plenty of time, as farmers will require a period to implement changes of practice and infrastructure upgrades, some requiring capital investment. If short notice is given before the new minimum standards are introduced, will the Minister allow a transitional period to ensure farmers looking to do the right thing aren’t punished due to time constraints?
The importance of agriculture in tackling climate change should not be ignored, and while Glastir agri-environmental schemes are bringing about positive changes on farms across Wales, we can reduce our carbon footprint further by increasing our level of self-sufficiency. What consideration has the Minister given to food production and food security as part of future schemes in an effort to reduce environmentally damaging imports while supporting our domestic industry? And is there a percentage target of self-sufficiency we are looking to attain?
Finally, Llywydd, I also note from the Minister’s statement that the sustainable farming scheme will be launched in January 2025. The BPS and Glastir extension is until 2023, meaning there is a lack of clarity with regard to support afforded to farmers in 2024, the year between one scheme ending and the new scheme starting. What support is the Welsh Government offering in this transitional period to ensure a cliff edge of ceased funding is avoided? And with Scotland promising full delivery of their new scheme by 2023, and England’s new subsidy already under way, what is the cause for the delay in this roll-out here in Wales? Diolch, Llywydd.

Lesley Griffiths AC: Thank you, and thank you for your positive words in relation to the statement, and I’m sorry I couldn’t tell you last week, but I’m sure you’ll appreciate, obviously, that things were being worked up ahead of the statement today. But I am very pleased that we’ve been able to put such significant funding into Glastir contracts, and I know how warmly welcomed it has been by many of the farmers I’ve spoken to and by the National Farmers Union. I thought it was really important and, as I said in my statement, it’s really important that we carry on that evaluation monitoring so we know of the benefits that the schemes have given us. 
Around food production, I’ve been very, very clear. We’ve had three consultations now ahead of this statement today, going over, obviously, two Governments. We had 'Brexit and our land' back in 2018, then we had a further consultation in 2019, and then we obviously had the White Paper in December, which closed in March. If you look at the responses, food is absolutely out there. Sustainable food production is so important, and we were the only part of the UK that actually had the word 'food', I think—or maybe Scotland did, but, certainly, England, there was no mention of food in their first consultation. I've always been very clear that sustainable food production is something that should be very well supported. And if you look at the support the agricultural sector has given us, no-one went without food during the COVID-19 pandemic in Wales, and I really want to pay tribute to the work that the sector did. And it's absolutely right that sustainable food production is rewarded in the way that we have set out in the sustainable farming scheme.
In relation to the national minimum standards, as you know, that was part of the White Paper, and I was really pleased to see respondents support proposals for simplifying the existing regulatory requirements. One of the things I've heard over the past five years repeatedly is the concern that people don't understand what they have to do to comply with the law. And, again, I mentioned that it's really important people aren't criminalised in the way that has unfortunately sometimes happened. Everybody has to comply with the law, and it's really important that we all understand it, and that just relates to agriculture regulation as well. They seek to protect our environment, and it's really important they do that. So, as I say, we will look, and we are looking, at how we can bring this forward. It's a very complex piece of work that I want to get right, and I'm really pleased that the sector want to work with me on this, and it remains my intention that it will be implemented in time for the introduction of the proposed scheme.
You ask about BPS, and, obviously, I've committed today to taking it to the end of 2023. All this is completely dependent on the UK Government giving us the funding and not shortchanging us by £137 million, like they've done this year. So, anything you can do to help in that way, I would be grateful for that. I don't want to see a cliff edge. For the past five years, I have continually said, 'We do not want to see a cliff edge', in the way that they saw it in New Zealand, for instance, when they stopped that direct payment. So, it's really important that that transition period—. And there might be criticism that it's taken us a little while to do it, but this is a very big transformational piece of work that we are doing, and it's absolutely right it takes a number of years to get it right.

Cefin Campbell MS: Well, Plaid Cymru also welcomes this statement and the opportunity to discuss and scrutinise the proposals for the reform of farming in Wales, which will have the greatest long-term impact on the agricultural sector for a generation. Plaid Cymru, of course, welcomes the schemes that provide economic stability and also sustainability in terms of the environment for farmers. But without detailed proposals on how much farmers will be paid for sustainable farming plans, and without any detailed impact assessments, it's perhaps too soon to say what impact these plans will have. But, we will have to work together, as you've said, across the sector and with farmers to help them to achieve the aim of being net-zero carbon emitters.
So, similar to the question that Sam Kurtz has asked, the statement confirms that the Welsh Government intends to bring basic payments to an end in 2023 and start a new scheme in 2025. So, there is a bit of uncertainty about how farmers are going to sustain their livelihoods during 2024. And you referred to the fact that this depends, to a great extent, on funding received from the Westminster Government. So, I do want to ask again about certainty and what back-up plans you have to sustain farmers during that particular year before the new scheme starts.
To move on to another point, in your Government's response to the consultation summary, you stated that there was a transition period over a number of years to enable farmers to transfer from the basic payment scheme to a sustainable farming scheme. Now, of course, we need a fair transition period to ensure sustainability, and, in England, I understand that that is a period of around seven years. Will the Minister outline how long she foresees the transition period lasting in Wales? For how long will the basic payment continue, and over what period will the payment be decreased in order to move towards the more environmental schemes? And will she publish the analysis and division of this transition period before publishing the agriculture Bill next year?

Cefin Campbell MS: As the statement notes, the commitment to full funding of the BPS through to December 2023 is subject to UK Government funding. Let's not forget that the UK Government have let us down before, having cut nearly £130 million in agricultural funding last year. So, in the context of that cut and that uncertainty, has the Minister held any preliminary discussions with Ministers or officials at Westminster to elicit this commitment that would provide greater stability for our farmers? And, more importantly, if the UK Government does not maintain its end of the bargain, as we've seen in past practice, what contingencies have the Welsh Government put in place to ensure that Welsh farmers don't lose out?
In terms of impact assessments as well—you mentioned these in the statement—we are obviously keen to see detailed impact assessments undertaken to consider the wider effects of these proposals on the sector. Now, when the White Paper was published last year, the Minister said that Welsh Government officials have let a contract to engage an independent consortium to examine the effects of the proposals on the agricultural economy of Wales, and I quote:
'I don't expect a final report on this to be received before the autumn of next year.'
We are in the early days of that autumn, so can you confirm, Minister, whether that independent analysis report is forthcoming, or has it been delayed?
And my final point is around woodland creation. Will the Minister confirm a definition of 'active farming', and that only active farmers should receive public money for woodland creation on Welsh land? And does the Government have any intention to reform and update the current 'active farmer' definition, which may be enabling large co-operations from outside of Wales to use public funds to greenwash their carbon offsetting activities? Diolch yn fawr.

Lesley Griffiths AC: Diolch, Cefin Campbell, and for your welcoming words as well to the statement. I said that we would be continuing BPS until the end of 2023. I didn't say that would be the end; what I was trying to give was some stability to our farming sector, because, previous to today, I had not announced that it would continue in 2023. So, you're talking about 2024—as I say, this is all down to budgeting. You can't go too far ahead. You ask about contingency plans, for instance. As you say, we were shortchanged £137 million this year. So, in relation to whether I have discussions, I meet George Eustice, the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs regularly and it is always on the agenda. You may have heard me say—I know your colleagues who were here in the previous term of Government will have heard me say many, many times—we ask for a Treasury Minister to come to our DEFRA IMG meeting and we've never been afforded that courtesy. It doesn't happen in other ministerial quadrilaterals, but unfortunately it happens in the DEFRA one, so you can make of that what you want. But I know, in fairness, that the DEFRA Secretary of State agrees with me in relation to securing funding, and I try to help him then lobby the Treasury. We will continue to do that. Obviously, my colleague the Minister for Finance and Local Government has discussions with the Treasury on many different topics, but this one is absolutely a priority for us.
We did say we would ring-fence the funding that we got for agriculture, but if you ring-fence nothing, then it's not very much, is it? So, Welsh Government does not have the funding that we are talking about—the £137 million—free to use in our budget. I would have to make a case for it, just like my colleagues make cases for funding around the Cabinet table. What is really important is that the UK Government keep to their word that we would not lose a penny if we left the European Union, and I think we should join together here in the Senedd to make sure that they absolutely deliver on that.
You asked about the detailed impact assessments, and the report, unfortunately, is a little delayed. I now expect to get it in the new year. You will appreciate that COVID has had a delay on the work that we've been able to do with our stakeholders. I'm very impressed that we've managed to work with 2,000 farmers and stakeholders over the past 18 months, because, clearly, we were unable to do as much as we wanted in the beginning. So, unfortunately, the report has been a little delayed, but I do expect to receive it in the new year of 2022.
You also asked about the environmental outcomes and public goods, and, clearly, in the sustainable farming scheme, this is what we're looking for in answer to both the climate and nature emergencies. I have to say the agricultural sector absolutely see themselves as part of the solution, and I'm always very impressed with the positivity they bring forward in relation to how they can help us achieve that. When you look at what they don't get money for now, what they're not rewarded for now, you will see it is that fantastic soil quality and water quality and carbon storage that the majority of farmers deliver. At the moment, they're not being rewarded for that, and, with the sustainable farming scheme, they will be.
In relation to the active farmer, I have been very keen to use that word 'active'; it's really important that it is our active farmers who are rewarded with public money, and I'm certainly looking at what that definition is. When you talk about woodland, I guess you're referring to the fact that, unfortunately, we have seen some farmland sold to multinationals, for instance, for carbon offsetting. We cannot tell people who to sell their farms to, and I had a very interesting conversation with the farmer around why that farmland had been sold. So, I think it is really important that we do support our active farmers, and this scheme certainly will look to do that.

Huw Irranca-Davies AC: I really do welcome this statement today. Sometimes, we have statements in this place that don't take us a lot further forward. This one today really does, and it does it in two ways: (1) in terms of giving, I think, some really good reassurance of the ongoing conversation that there will be with farmers and land managers on the future of this, but also the future of funding, subject to the UK Government—and we'd ask colleagues to help with this—coming forward and guaranteeing the funding that we need to do this transition. But it is also the journey to a very different future. If there is anything that we can grasp out of this opportunity now, it is the opportunity to have a different type of land management. Farmers are, indeed, the stewards of our natural environment for most of the landscape and topography of Wales. We can now make that explicit in the way that we actually recognise and reward it.
So, could I pick up just on a couple of things? I welcome, again, the reiteration that we will see this agriculture Bill coming forward. On the issue of reducing the regulatory burden on families, two suggestions going forward—you can take them or leave them. One is that, for those farmers who are good at what they do, not just in food production—sustainable food production—but actually good environmental stewards as well, we should reward them for that with earned recognition. We should be able to say there is a lighter touch for those who join in, let's say, landscape-wide, larger spatial collaborations on protecting the environment and the biodiversity and the ecosystems—ease off on them a little bit, recognising their track record. And on those that don't want to play ball, then go heavier. It will free up some of your resources in order to do that, and it recognises where there is a good track record with farmers.
Also, in terms of inspection and regulation and that lighter touch regulatory burden, let's have a look at something that is a one-stop shop on inspection and advice that would make it easier for farmers to know where to go to get good advice and to know that what they're doing is right and they won't be contradicted by somebody else.
On the transition funding, we've made the points already, and I totally reiterate Cefin's point on the active farmer definition; we are seeing now too many absentee landlords coming in and making the most out of carbon offsetting by taking up woodland and so on. But it was really good, Minister, to see you out recently with the NFU Cymru president John Davies launching NFU Cymru's 'Growing Together' report, and it shows clearly that farmers accept there is a real opportunity here on farms, as they have traditionally done, in copses, hedges and elsewhere, in the opposite of what we've seen over some of the common agriculture policy misdirection here, where hedgerows were taken out, copses were taken out and so on. There's a real opportunity to do this alongside sustainable, productive food production as well.
So, could I, finally, just reiterate my invitation? When the Minister was saying that this will allow us—this period now will allow us—to have detailed conversations with farmers on the proposals and test our thinking, genuinely, there will be no better place to come—and I say this quite seriously—than to some of my farmers in Ogmore, because they know the stuff they do, they do it very well, and there will indeed be a welcome in the hillside, with some good cake and tea.

Lesley Griffiths AC: Huw Irranca-Davies keeps floating this cake and tea past me every week. Yes, I'd certainly be very happy to come and visit. I did some fantastic farm visits over the summer and, as you say, everybody is really keen to show off the innovative work they're doing in relation to, particularly, reversing the biodiversity decline as well as mitigation against the climate and nature emergencies.
It is an ongoing conversation. We can't do it on our own—the Government can't do it on its own; no-one can do it on their own. it's really important, as we look at these agricultural reforms, which are necessary. You have to look for opportunities from leaving the European Union, and maybe this is the one—to have that bespoke Welsh agricultural policy—because farmers themselves will tell you that the common agricultural policy has not really made them as competitive as they would want to be. So, it is an opportunity.
I'd be very pleased to take your suggestions on board. I'm happy to listen to anybody's suggestions. And I think that one-stop shop, we've already got it with Farming Connect, and that was one of the reasons I was very keen to put in some significant funding again today—£7 million—so that we can extend that. English farmers look on Farming Connect with envy, and I know our Welsh farmers and foresters absolutely appreciate the support that Farming Connect offers. So, I think we do have that, and farmers can go there if they do need advice around that.
I was very pleased to launch the tree strategy at John's Pentre farm last Thursday and plant a very beautiful tree. And I understand every Member of the Senedd is going to be offered a tree to plant in their constituency, so—it's a bit of a plug—I do hope Members take up the opportunity to get their wellies out and their spades and go and plant a tree in their own constituency.

James Evans MS: Minister, I've read your statement with interest and I really do welcome the commitments that you've got in it to work with farmers, and especially, as has been mentioned around this Chamber, with active farmers. You and I used to meet before I ever came to this place, and that was something I always used to press with you, that support should go to active farmers. I'm also pleased at the £7 million that you've also committed in there to Farming Connect. As a past member of the rural leadership programme, I think it does an amazing job of upskilling farmers right across the country and sharing best practice across the sector, which is really, really welcome, and that commitment I'm glad to see.
Also I hear in your statement about the Glastir Advanced scheme being brought forward, and I do think that's really, really positive. That has had some huge benefits for our farmers and our rural economy, and how that money has been re-jigged around to really support local businesses has been great. But, on that, can you confirm—you did say about the schemes being rolled forward—that the new Glastir schemes will be open to new people to come in—I think that's really important, that new people can come in to Glastir to help improve the environment—and also whether the capital works will form part of the new Glastir Advanced scheme? Because I think that did a really great job of doing the streamside corridors, planting hedges, and also improving historic structures et cetera, which really do help boost Wales. So, I'd like to hear whether that's going to be included.
And also, finally, on that, will there be any variations to current contracts? Because as you know, Minister, farmers are locked into their current contracts, and if they want to extend it they've got to stay with the status quo. I think it'd be really beneficial for our farmers if we could have some variations in the contracts to allow them to diversify a little bit, to help their farm and also the environment. So, thank you very much, Llywydd, and diolch.

Lesley Griffiths AC: Thank you very much, and you will have heard me say my views around the word 'active'. I thought it was very important to have in the statement, and very important that it is our active farmers who are rewarded for their work.
I don't disagree with anything you were saying about Farming Connect. The reason I have put that funding forward is because I know how much it is appreciated that we have this place where people can go for support, and it's very rare I meet a farmer who hasn't had some contact with Farming Connect in their career.
In relation to Glastir, as I say, we are extending them. That is to provide certainty for contract holders. I will be looking to see if we are able to open any further windows, but, at the moment, the announcement I've made today is around extending Glastir contracts, because they need to be able to plan for withdrawal from that contract and, clearly, they were ending at the end of this year, so I thought it was very important to be able to provide that certainty.

Jane Dodds AS: May I also join with the other representatives in thanking you very much for the statement? And the Welsh Liberal Democrats welcome the detail that you've set out—particularly pleased to hear about the more proportionate regulatory framework for farmers and also that you're going to embark on a programme of engagement and consultation. Thank you. Diolch yn fawr iawn.
This must be, though, one of the most uncertain times for our farmers and those in Welsh agriculture. With the new and possibly threatening Brexit deals ahead for them, a new agricultural policy and COVID, farmers are facing significant pressures and uncertainty. This is also set against a backdrop of much longer-term uncertainty, about the impact of the climate, nature and biodiversity crises on society, and we must pay tribute to those farmers who are actually actively engaged in addressing those issues.
Much of what I was going to say has already been covered and I do look forward to the detail, which is about providing stability to deliver the environmental outcomes and invest in the new technology and productivity measures to deliver on our food security and environmental outcomes.
I just have two issues, if I may. Could you please confirm whether the Government intends to honour its commitment of domestic co-financing for the domestic RDP, valued at around £40 million a year, representing a very further significant loss of funding from rural areas such as the one that I represent? And Minister, you will also be aware that many farmers and their families can suffer from poor mental health. Could you please provide information on what wider support is being made available to farmers and those working in agriculture and more generally in rural communities in this regard? Thank you. Diolch yn fawr iawn.

Lesley Griffiths AC: Thank you, and thank you for your words of support as well. It is really important that we continue to work very closely with our farmers. What I want to make sure is that what we are proposing is practical. So, it's important that all farm types are able to access the new scheme, so I think that is an important area of economic analysis for us too. In relation to your two specific questions, I cannot commit to keep the same funding, the domestic part of the rural development programme funding, until after the comprehensive spending review. I really don't know what my budget is going to be, so, at the moment, whilst I'm looking at what we can do to build on the rural development programme, I'm unable to offer that commitment until after the CSR.
I absolutely agree with you around mental health issues with our farmers, and I was talking last week in a forum where I was saying that, when I first came into the portfolio, it became very clear that many farmers felt isolated; the only time they saw another person was when they went to market, for instance. So, one of the things I've been doing, I've been working with quite a few charities within the agricultural sector, and particularly over the COVID-19 pandemic, because as you can imagine they were getting far more calls during the pandemic than previously, to make sure that support was there. So, I've put significant and particular funding into the DPJ Foundation, which I'm sure you're aware of, to help them go out to train other people, because I think it's really important that that best practice is spread throughout Wales. And so they have been able to train people—perhaps somebody who works in a farmer's market, where they can go to talk to individual farmers, if they are able to have that conversation with them, because, again, I think one of the things I picked up was that sometimes they don't like to ask for help, in a way that is—. We don't want to see that; we want people to ask for help and to be signposted to the best place. So, I met with my colleague, the Deputy Minister, Lynne Neagle, last week to discuss how we continue to fund it. She'd been on a very good visit the previous Friday to the DPJ Foundation to hear about the excellent work they're doing.

Jenny Rathbone AC: Thank you for your statement. I appreciate that some of the things that I wanted to raise have already been covered, but I just want to emphasise that this weekhas demonstrated just how much disruption the farming sector is suffering, both as a result of Brexit and the climate emergency. So, we've set ourselves some really tough targets for reducing our emissions by nearly two thirds by 2030, and that includes the very significant carbon emissions tied up in both food production and food consumption. So, I'm a bit concerned that we might be deferring change until after the basic payment scheme comes to an end in 2023, and I want to probe you on what we're doing now to assist farmers to come to terms with the new normal. Because I had a really interesting conversation with Glyn Roberts over the summer, who's doing fantastic work on changing the breed of beef herds that he has, both to ensure that he's reducing the carbon emissions he's consuming from the feedstuff he has to give them, but also by reducing the amount of emissions that they're making. Being the head of the Farmers Union of Wales he has access to very good advice, obviously, and I just wondered how active your officials are being in giving advice to all active farmers about how they can start to make changes now, on how they're reducing their carbon emissions, and understanding just how much disruption there is to the previous just-in-time global networks that we've all assumed were going to go on forever, and how we can strengthen our local food networks in order to improve food security.

Lesley Griffiths AC: Thank you. You raise a very important point. We've seen, haven't we, how interconnected our agri-food chain is over the past—? Well, we'd seen it before, but certainly I think it has been very significantly profiled over the last few weeks. So, we've been working with the agricultural sector for several years around the issues you refer to, and back about three years ago, maybe four years ago, we used some European funding that was open to every dairy farm to make sure that they could access support, as you referred to, and have a bespoke plan of how they could transform in the way that we're referring to. We then did it with red meat as well. We did it with two of the sectors, so this work is ongoing. I can assure you that my officials are engaging with farmers. So, I mentioned that we've spoken to 2,000 farmers over the last 18 months or so around the co-design of this scheme, so officials take the opportunity, of course, to discuss all aspects of farming with them. I mentioned Farming Connect, and that is an organisation that farmers can go to if they want support on how they can transform or how they can transition. We've also given schemes to make our farms more competitive and buy equipment that will help them in relation to the climate and nature emergencies. So, we're not waiting. As I say, it's a very complex, transformational piece of work that is going to take several years. I would love to do it in a year, but we have to get it right, and it's right that we have this transition period.

Finally, Joyce Watson.

Joyce Watson AC: Diolch, Llywydd. We all know what the goal is, and it's simple: it's to see Wales as a net-zero emissions country by 2050. That's what this is all about, and the policies are critical to achieving that because we know that farmers look after 80 per cent of our land. It's just that simple.
So, paying them to help fight climate change and look after wildlife rather than how much land they have makes every bit of sense to us, particularly when we look at Wales, and we look at the fact that most of the farms in Wales are small farms. So, to me, that's a natural transition. But we need to look after also the unique social heritage that is locked into those small farms, and that, of course, is the Welsh-speaking nature of the people who live there, and also to ensure that we don't cause upheaval in such a way that many people have described here today. So, of course I welcome the fact, along with others, that you're maintaining the basic payment scheme until 2023.
We've talked a lot about farming, and you just very briefly did mention greenhouse gas emissions, and their use more widely in terms of the reduction of agrichemicals and processing, and transport and refrigeration. So, under these plans—and, again, going back to the target, which is zero emissions—are those things being considered in this plan, and when will we see more with regard to those?

Lesley Griffiths AC: Thank you very much, Joyce Watson. I think you're quite right: it's not just about food production, is it? It is about that social fabric. When I went out to New Zealand to see how they'd fared after they'd had that cliff edge that we will absolutely not have, where they stopped their direct support for farmers back in, I think it was 1983, that was the one thing they told me about, that they lost so many small farms. You don't get small farms in New Zealand now, they're absolutely massive, and they lost that sense of community. And, of course, we have the Welsh language as well, and the agricultural sector use the Welsh language more than any other sector in Wales. So, it's very important when we're bringing this scheme forward that we take all of those things into consideration.
We are looking at how we can support them to get to those zero emissions, as you say, and I mentioned in a previous answer about the equipment that we had offered to help them with innovation and artificial intelligence. So, those are schemes that we've had. We've had several farm business grant schemes, et cetera, and they've been given support to decide what is the best equipment to use on their farms. This isn't necessarily part of this; this is something that we've been doing to try and help our farmers reduce their carbon emissions in the meantime.

Thank you, Trefnydd. The rural affairs Minister—that's what I should have said there. We will have a short break now as we prepare and make some changeovers in the Chamber. So, we'll take a short break and we'll restart before long.

Plenary was suspended at 15:21.

The Senedd reconvened at 15:32, with Joyce Watson in the Chair.

4. Statement by the Minister for Health and Social Services: Future approach to optometry services

Joyce Watson AC: We move now to item 4, a statement by the Minister for Health and Social Services: Future approach to optometry services. Eluned Morgan.

Eluned Morgan AC: Diolch yn fawr. 'The Future Approach for Optometry Services in Wales', published in March, is ambitious and it's transformative, changing the way eye health services are delivered. Aligned to 'A Healthier Wales', and underpinned by the key principles of prudent healthcare, the approach supports our overall aims, which are: to improve access for citizens; to move delivery of services from secondary care to primary care in order to address the backlog in patient appointments and delay in follow-up appointments in hospitals; to reduce demand on hospitals and GPs; and to reform general ophthalmic service contracts.
As Members know, waiting times are significant. Patient numbers waiting for their first hospital eye health appointment, and subsequent follow-up, continue to rise. This increasing demand remains a challenge not just across Wales, but across the United Kingdom and Europe as well. Ten per cent of outpatient appointments are for eye clinics and cataract surgery accounts for about 6 per cent of all surgery in the United Kingdom.
Current capacity to provide specialist hospital eye services is extremely limited due to limitations on personnel. The Royal College of Ophthalmologists 2018 census reported that an extra 230 consultant posts were required across the UK to meet rising demand for services. So, unfortunately, a significant numbers of posts remain unfilled. I'm afraid that the completion of trained doctors each year is on average 74 across the UK. Therefore, there is a significant shortfall of trained doctors to fill current and future hospital posts. In Wales, thankfully, we have had an increasing number of people in primary care to add to the optometry workforce. So, by 31 December 2018, 875 practitioners were able to deliver NHS sight tests, and that's 34 more than in the previous year and a 19 per cent increase since December 2008.
Further upskilling to enable optometrists to work at the top of their licence in their practices, with the appropriate equipment, means optometrists are in an ideal positionto support hospitals to address demand and transform patient pathways. Over the past five years, increasing numbers of optometrists have gained additional higher qualifications in medical retina, glaucoma and independent prescribing. Optometrists with these higher qualifications can diagnose, manage and treat more patients in primary care, improving patients' access to care closer to home. This approach will significantly reduce the demand for a hospital opinion and intervention, and we know that is already reducing demands on GPs.
Last year, the then Minister for health announced £4.8 million funding to develop and implement a national electronic patient record and an electronic referral system across primary and secondary eye health care. To support this digitisation, health boards received £3.5 million in additional funding to replace equipment that had come to the end of its life. Introduction of these new digital systems will help to address the demand problems in hospitals, through shared care and monitoring of stable patients within primary care, providing a better experience and improved outcomes for citizens. The digitisation fund and the shift in emphasis complements the patient pathways, implementing and delivering services seamlessly across the patient journey between primary and secondary care. This is a significant move, enabling optometry practices to be the first port of call in primary care for patients with an eye problem.

Eluned Morgan AC: The pandemic caused whole-system disruption to health services. However, it provided the opportunity, in the wake of the pandemic, to redesign service delivery, ensuring sustainable models for the future. Therefore, with people starting to feel more confident about accessing care outside hospital settings, we now, more than ever, need to adopt a shared care model in providing eye health care. The resources that NHS Wales has are limited, so we need to take the opportunities to transform services, in the way that has been presented in the document 'Future Approach for Optometry Services'.
The NHS has to take advantage of non-medical advanced practice, by moving more services into primary care. The 'Future Approach for Optometry Services' document is based on work and extensive consultation. The document was approved by key stakeholders, including Optometry Wales and the Royal College of Ophthalmologists, and work is now under way to consider further the potential costs in terms of developing the agreed future approach.
In order to help to move the provision to primary care, we will need to amend the optometry contract and increase the number of optometrists who have additional qualifications. To achieve the best outcome from investment, the Welsh Government will continue to talk to stakeholders, to ensure that optometry services are appropriately funded. We as a society will benefit by investing in a skilled workforce and ensuring that patients can obtain services more easily and have better outcomes.
Unlike other professions, such as general medical services, pharmacy and dentistry, optometry doesn't have a contract. This is therefore a unique opportunity to decide on the best approach for the future. We have considered and learnt from what we have done in the past, to ensure that legislative changes are made to deliver the best outcome for patients and for health professionals. And we have learned lessons from that. If optometry works with NHS Wales in a new, strategic and collaborative partnership, which will build on already strong foundations that have already been set, future eye care will certainly improve.
Of course, we will need to monitor the new contract arrangements carefully. We will establish a new national Wales eye care service committee, which will have a clear terms of reference, including performance management against contractual obligations and deliverable patient outcomes. Generally, if we are to succeed, we will have to see changing behaviours from the public, and we have to agree to think about what we are doing in terms of the patient's circumstances. Patients don't always understand the difference between primary and secondary care, but they do understand the need for good eye health care.
'The Future Approach for Optometry Services' describes the new ways of working and clinical pathways. With a new contract for general ophthalmic services underpinning this, this innovative future approach ensures that Wales's eye care services will continue to lead the way across the UK. Thank you.

Joyce Watson AC: I'd like to now call Russell George, the Conservative speaker.

Russell George AC: Diolch, acting Presiding Officer. Minister, can I thank you for your statement and for the update on the future approach to optometry services? This week, National Eye Health Week stresses the importance, of course, of regular eye tests for all. So, I'm sure that we'll all be surprised that there's been a drop of 180,000 eye tests delivered across Wales in 2020 alone, let alone what those figures are for this year. There's also an estimated loss of £2.5 billion, so they say, in terms of loss to the UK economy because of sight loss.
Since the Government's policy was outlined in March, we're aware that the Welsh Government hasn't ruled out a further lockdown, and we're, of course, acutely aware of the winter pressures. This means that eye appointments being missed are likely to increase even further. I'm sure the Minister would agree with that analysis. So, can I ask what immediate preparations are you, therefore, Minister, making to ensure that opticians and NHS optometrists throughout the winter—? What assurances can you give to the Welsh public that they will be able to receive an eye test for the rest of 2021?
I'm also concerned that the future approach is short on targets and without a clear timetable. You've even mentioned in your statement today, Minister, that work is under way to consider the potential costs of the future approach, but you don't mention when you expect this by. There have been some really good examples of optometrists, as you say, who have set up services to diagnose, to manage, to treat patients in the community who would have ordinarily been directed to secondary care. So, this is all good news and very much welcome. Can I ask what efforts you are making to ensure that the work of the regional partnership boards means that excellent initiatives, such as what I've outlined, and you've outlined in your statement, are equally available across Wales?
The Specsavers report also refers to reduced ophthalmology appointments during 2020 as well. The most recent eye care measure statistics show that less than half of Welsh patients at immediate risk of sight loss or irreversible harm were waiting within their target date for an appointment. So, my final question is: what actions are you taking to ensure that both patients who are at a immediate risk of sight loss and those who have less severe risks will be able to be seen on time? Will the data for those in R2 and R3 categories also be published, and, if so, when? Diolch.

Eluned Morgan AC: Diolch yn fawr, Russell. It is true, of course, that there has undoubtedly been a reduction in terms of the number of eye tests carried out. That is not surprising in light of the fact that actually for lots of months of the year lots of society was closed down. What I'm acutely aware of is that there is huge pressure on our NHS services at the moment and particularly in our hospitals. So, what this approach is trying to do is to make sure that we can divert people away from hospitals. We have people who are highly skilled, who are in place within our communities, who are able to provide the service that previously was provided in hospitals, and we think that we can divert around 30,000 people, a third of the people who would otherwise have been referred into hospitals, through this mechanism. So, we are happy that that is the case. The fact that we've trained more people and that HEIW will be looking at how we're going to be training even more in this space will help us to meet what you are very keen to see, which is making sure that those appointments that have been missed are reinstated because we're able to do that. So, I'm very pleased that that will be happening.
In relation to the regional partnership boards, I think the space here, I think there are real issues in relation to cataracts—you'll be aware that there are very long waiting lists for cataracts. And one of the things that we are looking at is the development of regional cataract centres so that we can get high volumes of people through these cataract centres in a short space of time. We've asked health boards to work together and to come up with proposals in this space, so hopefully, we'll be able to give some further news on that once those have been tested and made sure that they are absolutely in the right place.
When it comes to urgent eye issues, I think you're absolutely right, there are lots of conditions where, if you don't deal with them immediately, people lose their sight. And that's why there is a very clear process for determining who goes first when it comes to people being seen in relation to any issues with eyes. It is a clinical decision, it's based on a clinical model and it makes sure that those who are likely to lose their sight, if they don't get the attention they need, are put to the front of the queue. So, I hope you'll be reassured by that.

Joyce Watson AC: I'd like to call Peredur Owen Griffiths, the spokesperson for Plaid.

Peredur Owen Griffiths AS: Diolch yn fawr, acting Presiding Officer. A diolch ichi, Weinidog.
I welcome this update on the future of optometry in Wales. There are fewer things more precious than sight and we should never underestimate the difference a well-run service can have on people's lives. I'm pleased to hear from the statement that there is work going on to upskill optometrists to enable them to work at the top of their licence in their practices. Any initiative like this that will help the NHS tackle the long waiting lists must be supported.
I must also pay tribute to the strides made since the development of a Welsh eye care initiative in 2002. This has been done in tandem with the ophthalmic profession to change and lead on eye care reform. Practitioners continue to work at a high level to provide an excellent level of care for the benefit of their patients in Wales, even throughout the pandemic.
Turning to the impact of the pandemic, like many other services, eye care has been deeply impacted by the pandemic. During the first lockdown, University College London researchers reported a 70 per cent reduction in new referrals and a high rate of missed appointments. Researchers and national sight loss charity, the Macular Society, have raised concerns about the long-term impact that this will have, as it is predicted that it will have led to hundreds of additional cases of severe sight impairment in the first lockdown alone. In Wales, for example, with a higher proportion of over-65-year-olds compared with the UK average, problems such as glaucoma could become much more prevalent.
The statement mentions the opportunity that the pandemic provides to redesign optometry services in Wales. We must return to a service that responds to the symptoms of sight loss in a timely manner, because many conditions can be treated if they're caught in time. While the onus is on the patient to report symptoms of sight loss, we also need a robust service that can respond to a patient's needs in a timely manner once symptoms are reported.Evidence suggests that optometry in Wales can be mixed, depending upon where you live. Good eye care in the Welsh NHS should be consistent and not dependent on where you live.
In recent years, there has also been a steady decline in vision rehabilitation services across the country. This means that adequate vision rehabilitation support is not being given to many blind and partially-sighted people when they need it. This is key, because research by Cardiff University demonstrates there are significantly improved outcomes for participants who had received visual rehabilitation compared to those on waiting lists. I would, therefore, like to see the Government go further and answer the following three questions. Firstly, will the postcode lottery of vision rehabilitation be eradicated in Wales? Secondly, will you consider adding vision rehabilitation to the list of qualifications eligible for the apprenticeship levy? And finally, thirdly, will you prioritise preventative services, including vision rehabilitation, alongside needs-assessed services, rather than after, once we are fully out of the pandemic? Thank you.

Eluned Morgan AC: Diolch yn fawr, Peredur, and thanks very much, and I think you’re absolutely right to draw attention to the fact that there have been a lot of missed appointments during the pandemic, and that could be storing up issues for the future. One of the things that we’d like to do is, by moving this care from secondary into primary—it means that people can get that support closer to home, which I know is something that you’re interested in, and I think that’s absolutely right.
I think when it comes to things like cataracts, I think, actually, a case can be made for people travelling a bit further to get specialist support—I think that there will be a few changes that we’re going to have to make if we are serious about making inroads into those very, very long waiting lists. I know that’s something that they do in Cuba very effectively. I’m not saying that we’re going to model everything on the Cuban health system, but I thought it was very interesting that it is possible to do very high volume with very specialist people away, often necessarily, from hospital centres. So, I think it’s certainly a model that’s worth investigating further.
You’re absolutely right to draw attention also to the fact that the situation is likely to become more difficult in future, partly because we’ve got an ageing population. So, certainly, the figures that I’ve seen in terms of demand for services in the next 20 years—we’re likely to see: an increase of 16 per cent in terms of the number of people having issues with glaucoma; a 47 per cent increase in terms of age-related macular degeneration; 50 per cent with issues with cataracts; and an 80 per cent increase in demand in terms of diabetic retinopathy. So, we have to make these changes because we simply will not be able to keep up with that demand unless we do something differently, and this is all part of—. What we’re trying to do is to transform services. We can’t go back to the way we’ve always done it because we simply won’t be able to keep up with the demand. So, I’m very pleased to see that.
In terms of postcode lottery, what we’re trying to do by bringing this support into people’s communities so that they can have it in their local opticians, and they are then referred—. I met a man in Swansea recently, when I visited the hospital there, who had been referred directly by his optician into the health board itself. So, there are ways of doing this that would make life easier for those people living in communities so we do take away that postcode lottery that is sometimes the case at the moment.
In terms of the qualification and apprenticeship, I think the apprenticeship levy is something that is determined by the number of people who are engaged, so that’s perhaps more difficult for us to organise, and is something that’s organised by the UK Government, so we just need to bear that in mind. But, certainly, I think there is scope for us to see what more we can do, going through that apprenticeship route. So, I’ll see if we can look if there’s any scope for us to do more in that area.
And I’m afraid that your third point I didn’t quite get, so I’ll come back to that at another point. If you’re happy to write to me, I’d be grateful.

Jenny Rathbone AC: Thank you for your statement. This is prudent healthcare in action. Well done. You know, given all the problems we face in the health service, it's really important that we are moving services to primary care, where it's safe to do so. And I'm sure this is going to be very much welcomed by people who can now get an excellent service in their local communities.
I visited a really excellent optometry service in Pentwyn with your predecessor, Vaughan Gething, who piloted the electronic referral system and the digital imaging that enabled them to share these images of the eye with the ophthalmologist, where there was an urgency to get a specialist opinion. And I wondered if you could tell me—there was £4.8 million to develop the electronic patient record and £3.5 million to replace equipment—does that mean that all optometrists with higher qualifications can be certain of having that level of equipment, to enable them to quickly push through any serious concerns they detect in their examinations? Because that seems to me really important in relation to your answer to Russell George around ensuring that people don't lose their sight because we're hanging around.
And, secondly, I wondered if I could ask you about how we're dealing with cataracts, because a friend of mine runs a very successful charity called Second Sight that deals with thousands of cataract operations in Bihar, which is the poorest part of India, using ophthalmologists from across the world. In Bihar, they can do 1,000 cataracts a day, which is obviously transformative. Do we have the same ambition in Wales to have these sort of production lines of cataracts? Because, yes, there are lots of them, but it's a pretty straightforward operation to do, and, therefore, we just need to get shot of the problem, and I'm sure people will be prepared to travel.

Eluned Morgan AC: Diolch yn fawr, Jenny. I'm glad you agree with our move to primary care, and you're absolutely right, this is all about 'A Healthier Wales', it's delivering on what we set out, and it's about the transformation of our services.
What we're doing now in terms of those optometrists who have those higher qualifications that we're encouraging constantly to work at the top of their licence, is that we're working now with the national ophthalmic planned care board to scope the requirements in terms of not just the estate that's needed, but also the equipment and the staff. So, if we are to meet the demands that I set out earlier, what does that look like, what will we need to put in place? So, that £4.8 million that you talked about for the national eye care electronic patient record, that's money that's already gone in. We now have to calculate how much more we need to put in in order to make sure that everybody who goes through this process is able to access. So, that is now being worked up by the partnership that has been put together, so that we can deliver on exactly what you're talking about.
And I agree with you: I gave the example of Cuba; you gave an example that you're familiar with, and I very much agree with you. We've got to make sure we don't dehumanise people when we're doing this, but I do think that there is scope, when we're in the kind of situation that we're in at the moment, where, frankly, people need a quality of life that they are losing every day, I think you're right; I think there is a case to be made for asking people to go to specialist centres—this is not for routine, but it's for specialist centres for cataract operations—and that's what we're working up at the moment. So, I do hope to be able to bring you some further news on that in the next few months.

Joyce Watson AC: And finally, Janet Finch-Saunders.

Janet Finch-Saunders AC: Thank you, acting Deputy Presiding Officer. Minister, I'm becoming increasingly concerned of late to see a number of constituents presenting to me, in my office, whereby they suffer with wet macular degeneration and usually have drops every month. Obviously, during the COVID pandemic, some of these were then decreased to every six weeks. However, I now have constituents coming to see me whereby they're not able to obtain these injections—it's taken three months to obtain them. And, in fact, the specialists, or consultants, are saying, 'Go and see your Member of the Senedd, because you should be having these drops every month; three months is simply not enough, and there is a risk to your eyesight.' Minister, with that in mind—I can write to you outside of the Plenary today, but with that in mind—would you send out guidance to our health boards that this is vitally important, and that if these injections are due every month, then those patients should receive them every month? Diolch.

Eluned Morgan AC: Diolch yn fawr, Janet, and I met with a constituent recently also who had a similar situation. Of course, there were examples where what happened before was that those people were sent into secondary care. What we've been trying to do is to move some of this support out into other areas. So, for example, I know there was a case in Crymych, for example, where they tried to develop an opportunity for people to get that support in a centre in a very rural area. So, there are opportunities to do this in a different way.
As I tried to explain earlier, what we're doing here in relation to eyes is we are prioritising on the basis of clinical need, and certainly I know that there has been an attempt to see if it is possible to give those injections in a way that doesn't need to be given quite as often as they were before. That has got to be a clinical call; it can't be a political call. And so I'm certainly happy to look into it to make sure that, if those decisions are being made, they are absolutely being made on a clinical basis, rather than any other reason.

Joyce Watson AC: Right. That brings that item to a conclusion. Thank you, Minister.

5. Statement by the Counsel General and Minister for the Constitution: Codes of Welsh law: A programme to improve the accessibility of Welsh law

Joyce Watson AC: We now move on to item 5, the statement by the Counsel General and Minister for the Constitution—codes of Welsh law: a programme to improve the accessibility of Welsh law. Mick Antoniw.

Mick Antoniw AC: The laws of Hywel Dda are mainly contained in three collections of manuscripts setting out Wales's native and distinct legal system. Scholars agree that the most developed version is Llyfr Iorwerth, the Book of Iorwerth, which dates from the thirteenth century. It was named after a lawyer, Iorwerth ap Madog, who complied a llyfr prawf, or test book, which contains all of the core texts that people needed to know in order to become a justice. The Book of Iorwerth also contains the laws of court and more general laws of the land.
Setting out the laws of a country is vital to provide certainty and protection for citizens and their environment, to prevent arbitrary decisions and to ensure people know their rights and their obligations. Our ancestors seemed to have understood this better than we do. As we are told in Llyfr Iorwerth, they kept the law under review, or, in its words, they
'examined the old laws, and some of them they allowed to continue, others they amended, others they wholly deleted, and others they laid down anew'.

Mick Antoniw AC: Llywydd, this is a process we have started here in Wales, and I'm proud to have today laid the first programme to improve the accessibility of modern Welsh law, as required by the Legislation (Wales) Act 2019. This programme commits the Government to bringing forward consolidation Bills and taking a number of other steps to make the law more easily available and understandable.
Work of this nature is common practice in many jurisdictions across the common law world. After inheriting English law, it has been normal practice in most Commonwealth countries to ensure that their legislation is well organised. This is done by not allowing Acts of Parliament to proliferate, as they have in the UK, and by keeping a structure to the statute book—something we are lacking. Llyfr Iorwerth provides a detailed account of the procedure for claiming land, and contains practical statements of the rules for compensation for cattle trespass and non-co-operative ploughing, both important issues in the Middle Ages.

Mick Antoniw AC: Now, our consolidation of planning law won't cover cattle trespass and ploughing, but it will provide a comprehensive statement on the use of land, aided by the Law Commission's proposals to simplify and modernise the law in this area. The planning system is essential to shaping sustainable development and places, helping economic growth, while at the same time reflecting social, environmental and cultural considerations. An effective and efficient planning system is vital to civil society, and simplifying and consolidating the law is needed to fully achieve this.
Consolidation of several different existing Acts into one well-drafted and bilingual Act will be one of our most effective tools to improve the accessibility of Welsh law. I have previously announced that we will be consolidating the law on the historic environment, and I can now update Members on our progress. I will be introducing this Bill in 2022, with the intention of replacing existing law that is decades old and that has been amended repeatedly and differently in relation to England, Scotland and Wales. This has left a confusing tangle that even legal professionals find perplexing, and most of it is only available in English. The work that has already been done on the draft Bill shows the benefits that consolidation will bring. Legislation for listed buildings and scheduled monuments has been brought together and restated to make it more logical, easier to read and more internally consistent across the various provisions. In future, users will be able to turn to one piece of primary legislation for the law on the management and the protection of the historic environment, and that law will be made for Wales alone and will be fully bilingual.
The programme also identifies further areas of the law where we will be assessing the value and potential for consolidation, with a view to bringing forward another two Bills before the end of this Senedd term. Alongside the legislative projects in this programme, we're also seeking to expand and develop our Cyfraith Cymru/Law Wales website, which provides explanatory material and guidance about Welsh law.
I can also confirm that we are beginning the long overdue task of making the Welsh language text of our legislation available in up-to-date form. Arrangements are now in place to work alongside the excellent team behind the legislation.gov.uk website and, in time, we will be responsible for updating all the Welsh legislation on this site. We are also working to improve the functionality of legislation.gov.uk to enable users to search Welsh law by subject.
Locating and organising the law by subject is at the heart of our work to develop codes of Welsh law. The consolidation and structuring of law in this way, together with advice and guidance, will make it easier for people to locate the law and have confidence in the accuracy of the materials retrieved.
We produce legislation in both Welsh and English, of course, and both texts have equal standing in law. Making legislation that is clear and accurate in two languages requires us to learn from others across the world, but also to innovate ourselves, and we have developed considerable expertise over the last 20 years. That expertise will stand us in good stead as we look to improve the accessibility of the legislative text in both languages, using straightforward syntax to convey what can be complex concepts. Likewise, as new language technology improves, we aim to automate and accelerate parts of the translation process, enabling drafters and translators to work more closely together to improve both texts and to make them easier to follow. We are also completing a long-term project to standardise hundreds of terms and publish them on the BydTermCymru portal.
Developing legislation is still a relatively new undertaking for the Senedd and the Welsh Government, and we continue to learn from others. But, as we look forward over the next five years, we can also look back at our own past, remembering that, as well as following good practice from elsewhere, we are following the successful approaches of our ancestors in developing codes of Welsh law. So, I thank Members for their support for this goal. I know that it will continue. Diolch, Llywydd.

Joyce Watson AC: Thank you, Minister. We now move to Mark Isherwood to speak on behalf of the Conservatives.

Mark Isherwood AC: Diolch. In March, your predecessor as Counsel General issued a written statement in which he said that he wanted to ensure that more work to deliver more accessible law would be done in, quote, 'normal' times. He also referred to the passing of the Legislation (Wales) Act 2019 and said, quote,
'it will be for the next Government to bring forward the first formal programme of activity to make Welsh law more accessible under that Act',
that work was already under way on two consolidation Bills and that the Welsh Government had three further projects under way in line with the intentions set out in 'The Future of Welsh Law' consultation in 2019. However, he added, quote,
'progress with these projects have been affected by the diversion of resources to respond to the pandemic'.
Given that the pandemic is still with us, why have you concluded that the 'normal' times referred to by your predecessor needed to progress this work have arrived and that the resources are now available for this?
The Legislation (Wales) Act was all about gathering law into different subject filing cabinets, with a headline statute and everything else made with reference to that statute—a huge undertaking designed to help the public find and use law themselves. You quote from the thirteenth-century Book of Iorwerth, Llyfr Iorwerth, a text of the Gwynedd or Venedotian code of medieval Welsh law, where the kingdom of Gwynedd, or Venedotia, was a Roman empire successor state that emerged in sub-Roman Britain in the fifth century. Well, as Leo Tolstoy also stated in the nineteenth century, writing laws is easy, but governing is difficult. And as Dame Hilary Mantel said in this century:
'When you are writing laws you are testing words to find their utmost power. Like spells, they have to make things happen in the real world, and like spells, they only work if people believe in them.'
Well, when the Welsh Government makes secondary legislation, MSs won't know it's happening most of the time, because they're made via a negative procedure, rather than the affirmative procedure and so come to Plenary. Although negative procedure secondary legislation is necessary to fill in procedural gaps in primary legislation, MSs won't necessarily know this is going through unless they're on the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee. It is this Welsh Parliament that makes law, and leaving it to committee to grumble about it after Welsh Government has made it via negative procedure isn't satisfactory. What assurance can you therefore provide regarding the issue raised by our excellent former colleague Suzy Davies MS during the Stage 4 debate on the Legislation (Wales) Bill, when she said,
'I hope, Counsel General, you'll also take on board that accessibility includes accessibility for AMs'—
now MSs—
'and to consider perhaps better ways of bringing forward negative procedure secondary legislation to the attention of Assembly Members'—
Members of the Senedd—
'bearing in mind that we are deemed to consent to that, so it's always good at least to be able to know it exists.'
What is the total financial cost of this accessibility programme over the five-year period? What demand from the public has there been or has been measured for making the Legislation.gov.uk website more accessible, or is this just something that will benefit the legal sector at greater cost to the public purse?
And to conclude, the pandemic has shone a light on devolved powers, with many people in Wales still confused about which set of COVID regulations were applicable to them. With less than half the electorate voting for anyone in May's general election—the Welsh general election—it is clear that the democratic deficit in Wales is still alive and kicking, with many still not understanding where the decisions are taken, who is responsible and how much power the Welsh Government actually has over their lives. Therefore, how will the accessibility of Welsh law increase the public's understanding of devolved powers and devolved legislation so that they can access the correct information from the right place at the right time?

Mick Antoniw AC: Can I thank the Member for a number of very important questions, for his comments and also, as we've come to expect, an interesting history lessonon Welsh law and particularly the references to Roman law, which of course are more the base of the Scottish legal system rather than the English and Welsh system? Well, certainly so far.

Mick Antoniw AC: You did refer to the issue of more acceptable law in normal times and the resources and the programme that we can expect. It is fair to say that the programme for consolidation, the work on codification, the work on the development of the resources around the development of the accessibility to Welsh law is a tricky one, because the demands on the expertise and skills of the Welsh lawyers, the Welsh legal services, are tied up in many ways. One of those of course is the legislative programme. There is still obviously a lot of work that is under way in respect of the leaving of the European Union; that hasn't gone away, and of course there is still a lot of legislation and I suspect there will be more in respect of the COVID situation.
It is also, I think, fair to refer to the fact that many of the demands in respect of legal service are of course those that are set by the UK Government. We have 32 items of legislation; many of them, which when they're announced, we're not given the details of until the very last minute, yet we have to respond, we have to consider the implications for the Senedd, the impact on the integrity of devolution, the relationship to the various responsibilities that we have, and of course we then have to engage in the legislative consent process. Those demands are absolutely enormous and we have had to accommodate, I think, in terms of the programme that we have.
So, I've identified some of the work that is under way already in respect of the accessibility, the technical accessibility of Welsh law, knowing what it is, where it is, the accessibility of that. We also have to have regard to the accessibility of law and the fact that it is not just about practitioners, officials and lawyers who want to access the law and know what it is; it is actually about the people of Wales. And of course, I think the point you were getting to was the point that I've regularly made, and that is really the impact of cuts in legal aid and restrictions of legal aid by the UK Government that have actually excluded access to the law for so many people, and that is why the Welsh Government has introduced a considerable amount of support and funding in respect of advice services. It is not an adequate replacement for a proper legal aid system, but it does contribute in some particular way.
You raised the issue of the cost. The cost will depend upon the scale of work that is involved, firstly in terms of the work that's gone on, for example, with the commission, with the further work that may be ongoing, the work in respect of, for example, the coal tip safety work that the commission are doing, and of course a number of areas that we will obviously want to explore further. Firstly, in respect of some legislation work with regard to removing obsolete—a consolidation Bill to remove obsolete provisions; that is to clean up, to some extent, the Welsh statute book. But other areas that we will look at and we will explore will be around the area of public health, housing, building regulations, allotments, hazardous substances and, of course, we've already referred to the issue of planning. So, it is an ongoing process.
When the Legislation (Wales) Act was passed, of course, it was not just about laying this programme, but also annual reports, so that Members will have the opportunity on an annual basis to scrutinise the progress of the process of reform, codification, consolidation and the work that is going on in respect of the accessibility of Welsh law.
I hope that I have answered all those points. Just one final comment, I suppose, in respect of the issues you raised about access. Of course, you'll see that my statement and the report that has been tabled do refer in some detail to the work that is going on to look at how this process can be complemented by the use of technology, the use of artificial intelligence, the development of, for example, the Cyfraith Cymru/Law Wales website, and within all of that, one of the underlying principles is that we want the law and the work we do to be as clear, as simple, as understandable and consistent as is possible.

Joyce Watson AC: Thank you. Now it's Rhys ab Owen for Plaid Cymru.

Rhys ab Owen AS: Thank you very much, temporary Presiding Officer. Counsel General, I welcome this statement greatly. I also welcome the talk about the laws of Hywel Dda at the outset of your statement. It's important that we destroy the myth here in the Senedd that we don't have a rich history and heritage of laws in Wales. According to the yardstick of the age, the laws of Hywel Dda had much greater status than other legal systems and they gave much higher status to women than other different legal systems in the period.
The accessibility of Welsh law is a problem—it's a problem for the public and it's also a problem for practitioners. Developing websites such as Law Wales is vital, but the work on legislation.co.uk is more important still. Because that, counter to what Mark Isherwood referred to, is used extensively by the public, particularly, as you referred to, Counsel General, following the extensive cuts by the Tory Government in Westminster to legal aid. What discussions have you had with companies such as Westlaw and Lawtel, which provide a lot of information to legal practitioners? It's those that legal practitioners use very often.
Codification is vital as well, and we're in a very fortunate situation in Wales that we have a relatively small number of laws, so we can do this, and we can do it early in the history of redeveloping laws in Wales. It would be much more difficult, of course, for other legislatures to do that. I'm very pleased to hear that there is an annual report that's going to be published on the development of the work, but what is your objective in terms of codification and the accessibility of the law by the end of this term?

Rhys ab Owen AS: This announcement, however, does not clarify a lot of the issues, including laws that apply only to England yet form the law of England and Wales. It's very difficult to identify whether the laws passed by the UK Parliament apply to England, apply to England and Wales, or Wales alone. For example, Acts passed by the UK Parliament that only apply to England do not include the word 'England' in their short title. Often you need to delve deep into the Act itself to find the answer. What discussions, therefore, are you having with the UK Government to clarify this difficulty?

Rhys ab Owen AS: It complicates the situation further that the laws that are made in this Senedd, and laws made in Westminster, extend to Wales and England, even though the laws only relate to England perhaps. They're part of the same legal system even though perhaps they only apply to Wales or perhaps they only apply to England. Isn't the obvious answer to this complex problem to create a Welsh law when the law applies to Wales, and an English law when the law applies only to England? That would show very clearly to everyone, the practitioners, the public and the politicians, the differences between Welsh law and English law.

Rhys ab Owen AS: And if the situation isn't difficult, isn't complicated enough, aren't you as Welsh Government adding to the complexity and breaching your duty under the Legislation (Wales) Act 2019 by consenting so often to the Westminster Government passing legislation within devolved areas? Laws passed by the Westminster Government within devolved areas will not be bilingual, cannot form part of your codification plans and will not be scrutinised here by the Senedd. It could also hinder a future Senedd from passing laws within those areas. So, what steps are you taking to ensure that you have the capacity in Welsh Government so that Bills in devolved areas are passed in Wales?
Does the Counsel General also intend to publicise this plan across the border in England? It's important that practitioners across England and Wales know about the work going on here. Have you been in touch with the Law Society, with the Bar Standards Board and with the Chartered Institute of Legal Executives to discuss and promote this plan? Also, what role will the soon-to-be-established law council of Wales have with regard to this?
Finally, on planning—and it's a brave Government that does tackle planning, so I do commend you for doing that and it certainly needs to be tackled—how will you ensure that planning law reform restores balance to the local planning system in which the public feel that they are being marginalised, such as in the model farm in the Vale of Glamorgan, and also where councillors are forced to accept plans that they do not agree with, such as Cardiff Council with the union flag in the city centre? Will reform of the planning law give greater powers to the Future Generations Commissioner for Wales and give enforcement powers so that planning departments do have regard to that Act, but also the Equality Act 2010 and the safeguarding of children?

Rhys ab Owen AS: As you've said several times, Counsel General, Welsh sovereignty is not in the hands of men like Hywel Dda, but rather it's in the hands of the people of Wales here. Having said that, the spirit of Hywel Dda and the spirit of Iorwerth ap Madog are to be heard in the Senedd today. I welcome that and I greatly hope that the Welsh Government will continue in that spirit, and develop and protect Welsh law in the face of the opposition of Westminster. Thank you very much.

The Llywydd took the Chair.

Mick Antoniw AC: Can I thank the Member, as ever, for a very far-reaching and wide-ranging series of comments and questions? I suspect if I were to answer in detail all of them, I would attract the ire of the Llywydd, but I will do my best within the time that is available to me. [Laughter.]
Can I just say first of all on the issue of planning—and, of course you are right, it is an incredibly complicated area—the work is under way on it? I understand that the English version and the Welsh version will both individually amount to something like 400 pages of legislation, and everything that will follow on from that. So, the assistance of the Law Commission within that process is extremely valuable.
I think we also have to distinguish between the issue of consolidation as opposed to reform, and you're absolutely right about the areas, the issues and the matters that get raised with us as Senedd Members in that capacity with regard to reform. But it's also important to understand that the consolidation process is one where, effectively, we do not want to see—. I mean, we do not want to effectively tie down the entirety of the capacity of the Senedd in terms of legislation and scrutiny to actually reform the entirety of planning law, unless that becomes a specific part of the legislative programme, but rather to take what there is and to put it together and to consolidate it into a simple-as-possible and consistent piece of legislation that can then be codified under a planning head, so that citizens within Wales will know where the law is in one place, and it would be available equally in Welsh and in English.
So, that's an important different process to the one where there would be reform and all the arguments over the type of reform, and so on. If we were to go down that particular road, I think consolidation as a project would actually grind to a halt over the years. But what we do look at is to look at where there are opportunities in legislation that may be forthcoming. One of them I think I mentioned when I was giving evidence to the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee, which does such important work in this area, was that as a result of UK Government legislation, there are areas where there will be divergence in law almost certainly. We may well want to bring our own electoral reform legislation, and that then provides opportunities for reform and for effectively consolidating into one place, and in Welsh and in English. So, we can fulfil some of those demands in other particular ways. So, it's very important to have a focus on that as part of the process that's under way.
Of course, you've identified the issues of divergence. They're matters that we've discussed in this Chamber on a number of occasions, that, of course, the UK Parliament passes laws for England and Wales that often only apply to England, and in Wales we pass laws for Wales that only apply to Wales. We don't pass laws for Wales and England equally in that particular format. So, you are right that there are those anomalies, I think, in the process. They are partly political in the perception of the role of the UK Parliament in legislating and how it legislates. Those are ongoing and they emerge regularly, I think, in all the different items of legislation that come from UK Government that we have to consider and where we have to consider legislative consent memoranda. They are dealt with frequently on an individual ministerial portfolio basis, but those issues do regularly arise. It may be that if we make progress on the inter-governmental reform programme that is under way, there may be opportunities to set further principles down the road in terms of the way legislation is developed and operated and the way in which conflicts and disagreements are actually resolved.
You referred to the importance of accessibility, and I agree with you entirely that, firstly, the steps that we are taking are fundamentally important in terms of accessibility. If you don't know what the law is, where it is, whether you're a citizen, whether you're a practitioner or whatever, that accessibility doesn't exist. And it is fair to say that when you look at a lot of UK Government legislation, or laws—. If you take education for example and you look there to find out where the law is, you would spend quite some time actually trying to find out where it is, what is still in force, what is still relevant, and so on. The attraction to us in terms of consolidation and codification is this: when we have consolidated law in an important area, we then have the opportunity when we make amendments not to introduce a new law, a second law and a third law and all these subsequent bits of secondary legislation, but what we do is we amend the law that we have. So, we still have a single piece of legislation in one place, but that is what we change, and that is the objective in a whole range of areas. Historic environment, I think, is an important area. There is a lot of interest in it. It does affect many aspects of Welsh cultural and historic life. So, I think that was an important one that develops. But as I mentioned in my response to Mark Isherwood, of course there are other areas that we are looking at that are ripe to do at the appropriate time.
In terms of the other aspect of accessibility, which I think we're in complete agreement on, that is this: if people can't access the law themselves and be represented in the law, then that is a significant restriction on the accessibility of the law of the citizens. I've said in the past I would like to see us have our own Welsh legal aid system. One of the recommendations of the Thomas commission was for that to take place, or for the process to begin in that respect. I feel that if people cannot have representation then they do not have genuine access and they are disempowered within the legal system. When I went to visit the Cardiff civil justice courts the other week and met with the judges and some of the staff there, when you hear that in the family courts there are those whose accessibility on issues of major importance to their family, to their children and so on, was accessing the courts by means of a mobile phone, then that clearly is not something that is satisfactory. And, of course, a number of these are issues that I had intended to discuss with the Lord Chancellor and Minister for justice, Robert Buckland, last week. There has been a reshuffle. There is a change there. So, that conversation and those discussions hopefully will continue, but obviously with a new Lord Chancellor. I do hope I've answered all the points that you raised.

Huw Irranca-Davies, Chair of the legislation committee.

Huw Irranca-Davies AC: Diolch, Llywydd. I really welcome this statement this afternoon, and also the debate that has ensued and the comments, because it shows that, far from being a dry and arcane piece of Tuesday afternoon business here, it actually goes to the heart of trying to make law accessible and understandable, not only for professionals, as has been mentioned, but for the public as well, and that goes to the core of our legal system, and our justiciable elements of our legal system as well. So, it is vitally important. It's been quite wide ranging. I've been slightly overawed as well, I have to say, not only having the legal expertise in front of us here within this Chamber, but also the historic allusions as well, to Hywel Dda, the Book of Iorwerth, Roman law, statue law and so on. But, listen, I'll do my best, in my role as the Chair of the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee, to respond with a few remarks, and in so doing, I look fondly on my colleague on the frontbench in front of me, not just as the Counsel General but as I like to remember him, as the former Chair of the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee.
The Counsel General, in his new role, will know that our predecessor committee began considering the Welsh Government's plans for the consolidation of Welsh law back in 2017, and in fact, that committee then subsequently scrutinised the Legislation (Wales) Bill prior to it being passed by the Senedd in July 2019. Given that his committee welcomed the new duty on the Counsel General and the Welsh Ministers at that time to prepare at least one programme for each Senedd to improve the accessibility of Welsh law, the Counsel General, in his new role, will know the strength of feeling that is still within the Senedd to see this work getting up and running. And the approach to this is important. Not trying to do too much at once, but doing it in bite-sized chunks, is important. We will not get there overnight and it's not, I think, appropriate to run at this in terms of resources and so on. But it's the old adage: doing this in bite-sized chunks, how do you eat an elephant? You do it in bite-sized pieces, steadily and slowly and looking for the right opportunities to come along.
The Counsel General gave evidence to our committee yesterday afternoon and we briefly discussed his priorities regarding the accessibility of Welsh law, one of which is to consolidate the Welsh statute book. As you mentioned, in March of this year, the previous Senedd agreed to new Standing Order procedures that will facilitate the introduction and the scrutiny of consolidation Bills, which will play a significant part in improving the accessibility of Welsh law. The Welsh Government's legislative programme statement in July this year stated that legislation relating to the historic environment will be the subject of the first consolidation Bill, and I note that the Counsel General has confirmed that this afternoon. We look forward, in our committee, to taking on this new scrutiny role.
If I can also turn to some other aspects of the statement this afternoon, we very much commend the approach that the Counsel General says: that in future, users will be able to turn to one piece of primary legislation for the law on the management and protection of the historic environment, and that law will be made for Wales alone and will be fully bilingual, a point that was touched on by colleagues in the Chamber a moment ago—the principle that we hold to on that. But also that the programme identifies further areas of the law, where you will be assessing the value and potential for consolidation with a view to bringing forward another two Bills before the end of this Senedd term. We welcome that as well.
The Counsel General will also be aware that stakeholders have said that the ambitious task of making Welsh law more accessible will require sufficient resourcing by the Welsh Government and that legislative measures alone, such as consolidating legislation, will not be enough to make Welsh law truly accessible. In this respect, I do welcome in the statement the references there to seeking to expand and develop the Cyfraith Cymru/Law Wales website, providing the explanatory material and guidance about Welsh law. We welcome as well, as you referred to at the beginning, the long-overdue task of making the Welsh language text of legislation available in up-to-date form, and also your reference to working to improve the functionality of legislation.gov.uk to enable Welsh users to search Welsh law by any subject. And finally, just to remark, we do also welcome your ambitions to complete the long-term project to standardise the hundreds of terms and publish them on the Byd Term Cymru portal, also.
I'd like to conclude my contribution today, Llywydd, by welcoming this programme and the opportunities it brings for making law more accessible to our citizens. That is what it is all fundamentally about. Our committee intends to monitor, now, the implementation of this programme and we look forward to discussing these matters with the Counsel General on a regular basis. Diolch yn fawr iawn, Llywydd.

Mick Antoniw AC: Could I thank the Chair of the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee for those comments? Of course, the role of the committee in the actual scrutiny, not just of the integrity of legislation, but all the underlying principles and the issues of accessibility, I think, is very fundamental. As this legislature, this Parliament has begun to mature, effectively, that committee has become a legislation and constitution committee in the traditional sense, and has a very, very important role, particularly in a Parliament that doesn’t have a second chamber.
On the issue of consolidation, of course, it had been something that had been discussed for quite some time. I think we all would give credit to a former Member of this Senedd, David Melding, who did an awful lot in terms of the continual promotion of the need for consolidation. Obviously, he’s not here today to actually see the progress that is being made on this first report that has actually been introduced.
There are, of course, a number of areas and challenges, not just in terms of the accessibility, but the accessibility and the way it fits in within the quality of law, and the jurisprudence of law—that is the issues around the justice of law. And, of course, there will be issues that will be emerging that are not specifically within this accessibility but I think are relevant, and that is going to be challenges that there will be in respect of human rights, the rule of law, issues of judicial review, and the issue of standards that we may wish to maintain, and the issues of how those interreact with the pressures that may come from parliaments elsewhere. The resources issue is one that is, obviously, ongoing, and significant in terms of all the demands that there are.
I was very impressed with some of the information I was provided about the way in which judicial training is changing, and now specifically looking at areas of Welsh law, particularly, for example, areas of housing and so on, and, of course, the issue that now, of course, administrative court hearings will take place within Wales, which is absolutely right. Of course, the one area that I didn’t mention is the area of the Welsh tribunal reform, and the work the Law Commission are doing there. I think that is part and parcel of the jigsaw of the developing Welsh legislature. Thank you, Llywydd.

Thank you, Counsel General.
We come to the next three items, 6, 7 and 8. In accordance with Standing Order 12.24, unless a Member objects, the three motions under items 6, 7 and 8—namely the Health Protection (Coronavirus Restrictions) (No. 5) (Wales) Regulations—will be grouped for debate, but with separate votes. There are no objections to that.

6., 7. & 8. The Health Protection (Coronavirus Restrictions) (No. 5) (Wales) (Amendment) (No. 14) Regulations 2021, The Health Protection (Coronavirus Restrictions) (No. 5) (Wales) (Amendment) (No. 15) Regulations 2021 and The Health Protection (Coronavirus Restrictions) (No. 5) (Wales) (Amendment) (No. 16) Regulations 2021

I will ask the Minister for Health and Social Services to move the regulations in their entirety. Eluned Morgan.

Motion NDM7776 Lesley Griffiths
To propose that the Senedd, in accordance with Standing Order 27.5:
1. Approves The Health Protection (Coronavirus Restrictions) (No. 5) (Wales) (Amendment) (No. 14) Regulations 2021 laid in the Table Office on 16 July 2021.

Motion NDM7775 Lesley Griffiths
To propose that the Senedd, in accordance with Standing Order 27.5:
1. Approves The Health Protection (Coronavirus Restrictions) (No. 5) (Wales) (Amendment) (No. 15) Regulations 2021 laid in the Table Office on 6 August 2021.

Motion NDM7777 Lesley Griffiths
To propose that the Senedd, in accordance with Standing Order 27.5:
1. Approves The Health Protection (Coronavirus Restrictions) (No. 5) (Wales) (Amendment) (No. 16) Regulations 2021 laid in the Table Office on 27 August 2021.

Motions moved.

Eluned Morgan AC: Thank you very much, Llywydd. I move the motions in front of us.
The Health Protection (Coronavirus Restrictions) (No.5) (Wales) Regulations 2020 set out the legislative framework for four warning levels that are outlined in the coronavirus control plan. As noted in the regulations, a review must be undertaken every three weeks. In the review on 14 July, it was noted that cases of the coronavirus were increasing in the community, primarily as a result of the Delta variant, but the high vaccination rates meant that the number of those presenting at hospital continue to be low because they could continue to implement the changes to alert level 1 on 17 July.
In July we also published an updated version of the coronavirus control plan to outline our plan to move to alert level 0, a new level. On alert level 0 there are no legal restrictions on the number of people who can meet each other, including in private homes, in public areas, and in events. Those businesses that remained closed, including nightclubs, could reopen. As part of the review on 5 August, it was noted that the general rates of COVID-19 had decreased across Wales, and the percentage of people who received a positive test had started to decrease consistently. The pressure on the health service as a result of COVID-19 continued to be low, and this meant that Wales could move to alert level 0 from midnight on 7 August. The requirement for people to isolate, if they came into close contact with the virus, was abolished for those who had been vaccinated fully, and also for children under 18 years of age, as part of that review. Also, the requirement for people to wear face coverings was abolished in hospitality settings.
In the review on 26 August, it was noted that the transmission rates of COVID-19 had increased across Wales during that period, and the percentage of people who received a positive test had also increased. But, the evidence still suggests that the link between the cases of people presenting in hospitals and deaths had been weakened by the vaccination programme. Some minor changes to the regulations came into force on Saturday 28 August, including exempting people attending wedding ceremonies or civil partnerships from the legal requirement to wear a face covering, ensuring consistency for wedding receptions that had already been exempted since the review period of 5 August. Thank you.

Gareth Davies AS: Thank you to the Minister for your statement this afternoon. We will be supporting these regulations today, as these regulations are in regard to easing restrictions.
Unfortunately, the latest three-weekly review has once again failed to address the social care sector. To quote a Denbighshire care home owner, 'Older people are often forgotten and pushed to the bottom of the priority list'. The First Minister's written statement on the review of Welsh COVID regulations only mentions the care sector in passing, to say that care home residents and staff would begin getting booster jabs this week. The care sector is responsible for looking after the most vulnerable people in our society. We shut down whole swathes of our economy to protect those very people, those most vulnerable to COVID. Now that we have effective vaccines and can once again open up to return to some form of normal life, it's not an excuse to forget about those in care once again.
We are vaccinating teenagers and rolling out third doses, yet we still have over 9 per cent of staff in care homes yet to have their second dose, and this cannot be down to vaccine hesitancy or anti-vax disinformation. One thousand two hundred and sixty three members of staff working in our care homes have had a first dose but not a second, yet a single dose can offer protection against catching and spreading the virus, but not as much as two doses or even three. It's little wonder that care home providers are deeply concerned about their liability and why they are desperately calling for Welsh Government to extend the indemnity enjoyed by the NHS to the care sector. During the last Senedd, Welsh Government introduced legislation to protect the NHS from liability claims. They need to ensure the care sector enjoys similar protections, particularly in light of the pandemic and chronic staff shortages. I hope the Minister will address these points during the course of the next three weeks. Thank you very much.

Siân Gwenllian AC: We in Plaid Cymru don't oppose these regulations either. They have moved Wales towards a zero alert level, bringing more normality into people's lives across the country, which is to be welcomed, of course. But, as we know, we can't take anything for granted, as cases increase once again, and there are questions that need to be answered by the Government about the current situation and how the situation could develop in the future. And it is a cause for concern for everyone to hear about the increasing pressure on intensive care units in the Hywel Dda area, for example. So, please let me take this opportunity to ask you about the current situation.
The effort to vaccinate as many people as possible continues to be vital. Could I ask you about the COVID passes in order to understand a little about the logic behind your decision to move towards introducing these passes in some situations?Could you explain to the Senedd is the main aim in introducing these passes to push vaccination levels higher, and do you think that your plan will reach that objective?
Since the introduction of the pass before the summer for international travel, Plaid Cymru and others have raised the issue of having access to the system through the medium of Welsh. So, could I ask you when that Welsh-medium service will be available to have a COVID pass? We also hear about cases from the the National Union of Students Wales about some students failing to have a COVID pass because the system can't deal with the fact that a student has had one vaccine in Wales and one in England. And so, when will that problem be resolved in a satisfactory way?
And finally, could I ask you about the ozone machines and the use of those within schools? When I asked the First Minister about the use of those machines last week, I was led to understand that a rapid review was being undertaken by the technical advice cell to look at those concerns that had been raised about the safety of those machines. So, could I ask you to provide an update? Has a review been undertaken, what were the recommendations, and what will you be doing following that report? Many experts believe that it would be much better to focus our resources on other means of preventing the spread of the virus, and it would be better to have more resources for monitoring air quality and ways of moving air around buildings. Thank you very much.

The Minister to reply to the debate.

Eluned Morgan AC: Diolch yn fawr—thank you very much. I'm very aware of the situation. Of course, today we are focused on the regulations, but I am happy to just say a few words on the social care situation. I can tell you that we are acutely aware of the stresses and the strains that the social care sector is undergoing at the moment. That is why we are determined to make sure that we pay a huge amount of attention to this. We've already committed £48 million in the past two weeks to make sure that our local government colleagues are able to shore up the systems within their powers. I have weekly meetings, along with the Minister who's responsible for care in the Welsh Government, Julie Morgan, with the Welsh Local Government Association—representatives from there—the NHS, and our own officials, to see what else we can do to shore up the situation over this winter. We have been waiting for months—no, for years—for the Tory Government to come up with proposals on how we're going to fix care in this country. They did come up with some suggestions in recent weeks in relation to how they suggest that we should raise funding. We don't agree with that, but at least we know now what the future could look like. We're not certain, but that does give us an opportunity to think more long term about how we're going to fix the situation in relation to social care. We could have gone a lot further and a lot quicker had we had information before now. So, I can assure you that when it comes to social care, we are doing everything in our power to shore up the situation that we understand is very, very difficult at the moment.
When it comes to liability for care homes, that is something that I know the UK Government is looking at, and that we will continue to consider. When it comes to the jabs, the booster doses—that has already started now in care homes across Wales, and of course there are very high numbers of people who work in those care homes who have already been vaccinated.

Eluned Morgan AC: May I thank Siân from Plaid Cymru for accepting the regulations? We know that there is huge pressure on our hospitals at the moment, and, of course, there is an additional effort now for us to go about ensuring that the vaccine is extended in terms of the booster, and vaccinating children between 12 and 16 years of age. In terms of COVID passes, we are eager, if we can, to keep the situation open over the winter. We know that there will be additional pressure,that COVID thrives indoors, and we know that during the winter, people are far more likely to spend time indoors. That's sure to spread the virus, and that's why what we think is best to do is to put measures in place before problems arise. That's what our experts have been telling us throughout, that we have to act early on in terms of preventing a situation from developing, and that's why we have introduced this particular scheme to ensure there are passes used if people go to settings such as nightclubs and so on. And so, of course, we also hope that that will help to increase the number of young people who will receive the vaccine.
In terms of the system through the medium of Welsh, we're dependent, to a large extent, on the situation in England. They have many of the techniques and levers in terms of how the apps work. We know, for example, that the situation, if you download the app that states that you can receive the COVID pass, at the moment, it says England. At the end of the month, it'll say Wales as well. So, we're always waiting for them to move forward. They have to make the changes on our behalf.
In terms of the ozone machines, we have asked for that review by the technical advisory cell. We haven't received the recommendations yet, but we will be informing you once we have received those recommendations. But I'm sure that you'll be pleased to hear that there are carbon dioxide machines now being placed in our schools across Wales, and we hope that that will help to monitor the air quality and to ensure that we do get much more ventilation in our classrooms during the winter.

Thank you, Minister. Therefore, the first question or the proposal is to agree the motion under item 6. Does any Member object? I don't think anyone is objecting, so that motion is therefore agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

Motion agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

The next proposal is to agree the motion under item 7. Does any Member object? No, nobody objects. The motion is therefore agreed.

Motion agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

And the final proposal is to agree the motion under item 8. Does any Member object? No, therefore, the motion is also agreed.

Motion agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

9. The Trade in Animals and Related Products (Wales) (Amendment) (EU Exit) (No. 2) Regulations 2021

The final item of business this afternoon is the Trade in Animals and Related Products (Wales) (Amendment) (EU Exit) (No. 2) Regulations 2021, and I call on the Minister for rural affairs to move the motion. Lesley Griffiths.

Motion NDM7778 Lesley Griffiths
To propose that the Senedd, in accordance with Standing Order 27.5:
1. Approves The Trade in Animals and Related Products (Wales) (Amendment) (EU Exit) (No.2) Regulations 2021 laid in the Table Office on 16 July 2021.

Motion moved.

Lesley Griffiths AC: Formally.

I have no contributors to the debate beyond that. So, I will ask the question: the proposal is to agree the motion, does any Member object to that motion? No. Therefore, that motion is also agreed.

Motion agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

And that means that we don't need voting time this afternoon, and so you're all free to go. Good afternoon to you all.

The meeting ended at 16:58.

QNR

Questions to the First Minister

Russell George: Will the First Minister make a statement on the Welsh Government's involvement in developing energy networks in Wales?

Mark Drakeford: The Welsh Government believes that only a properly planned approach can deliver the future energy networks needed to meet Welsh needs. We will bring all the current network players together to develop a common view of how the sector can support achievement of the 2050 net-zero goal.

Joyce Watson: What discussions has the Welsh Government had with the UK Government regarding its plans to cut universal credit?

Mark Drakeford: We have repeatedly called upon the UK Government to maintain the £20 per week universal credit payment. We have also asked for their assessment on the impact of cutting this financial lifeline would have on poverty levels in Wales. No response has been forthcoming.

Peter Fox: What action is the Welsh Government taking to tackle ambulance waiting times in the Aneurin Bevan University Health Board area?

Mark Drakeford: The health Minister has received the first iteration of the emergency ambulance services committee delivery plan. It sets out a range of actions to enable the Welsh ambulance service to improve management of 999 demand in the community, increase capacity, and improve responsiveness and patient handover.

Alun Davies: Will the First Minister make a statement on the Welsh Government’s support for the media in Wales?

Mark Drakeford: The Welsh Government recognises the importance of a strong and effective media presence in Wales. We are working with our stakeholders to explore options to support an increase in coverage of news, on an arm's-length basis.